Results when switching from Glock to CZ in IDPA?

[brianr34]

Currently use a G34 for SSP. To try something different, I am interested in using a CZ for SSP or ESP.

Been looking at CZ75 Shadow SAO

If anyone has experience in switching from Glock to CZ for IDPA, I would like to know your opinion on the following.

--Malfunctions during a match

--Classifier time

--Accuracy

--Muzzle flip / speed between shots

--Has CZ made you a better IDPA shooter overall

[Jukez]

I think this other thread you started answers most of those questions

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=194430

[alma]

Apparently not to satisfaction.

[ummm]

Srsly asking if a gun is going to make you a better shooter?

[alma]

Let me try but my context is USPSA.

1. This may non be a typical response but I have fewer malfunctions with my CZ than my Glock 34. I was having issues with light strikes on my Glock because I couldn't get Federal primers any more and later I also found that my striker had excessive wear that was making the problem worse. A light trigger on a Glock usually requires being very mindful of primer sensitivity. CZ triggers are generally much more tolerant to different primers at similar trigger pull weights. When moving to a CZ I originally had a few malfunctions that were self induced because I way still getting used to the controls. I had the same issue when I originally moved from a standard Glock to one with extended controls. Are a number of minor tweaks that should be performed on every CZ you get that eliminate most reliability issues and you should be doing regular maintenance but if you do your part.

2. Classifier time would likely be similar if you are competent with each gun.

3. Most have no complaints with stock Glock or stock CZ accuracy. Out of the box I might give a slight edge to the CZ (good trigger helps) but the G34 has better sight radius which might help to milk out the inherent accuracy a bit more in practice. I had a BarSto in my 34 and I could drive tacks with it. Accuracy on my 34 with a BarSto was better than stock CZ Shadow but not as good as an Accu Shadow. Any of these guns are likely much more accurate than the shooter.

4. You might get a bit less flip and slightly faster splits on a CZ but they are heavier than the Glocks so target transition may be slightly slower. I call it a wash.

5. No. It's just a tool.

Edited May 4, 2014 by alma

[brianr34]

I was just looking for some more feedback for those that have used both. I guess I should have just tried to restart other one.

Sorry for the trouble.

Yes, I was asking if a CZ provided better results.

[JLeeCZ]

CZ 75 Shadow SAO puts you in ESP.

8.1.1.2.

Double action, double action only and striker fired semi-automatic firearms compete in Stock Service Pistol Division (SSP). Any firearm that can be used in SSP can be used in Enhanced Service Pistol Division (ESP) or Custom Defensive Pistol Division (CDP), depending upon the caliber. Single action semi-automatic firearms compete in ESP or CDP, depending upon caliber. Revolvers are classified by loading method and ammunition power.

Edited May 4, 2014 by JLeeCZ

[alma]

Just get a double action Shadow with a gunsmith fit short reset trigger in it. That way you can easily shoot it SAO but all have the option of double action for SSP.

[brianr34]

Thanks Alma. Does the normal CZ75 Shadow come with the short reset trigger? So, is the single action pull in the DA/SA shadow fairly close in feel to the SAO? I was looking at the 91711 and 91705 models that are in the $850 range.

Edited May 4, 2014 by brianr34

[alma]

Those are the factory models, not the ones that CZ Custom has worked on so these won't have as good of a trigger or the short reset out of the box.

The core is the same gun but without the some of the action/trigger work, accuracy work, and other upgrades.

If you like to do your own work then get the base model and build it up over time. If you aren't then you can order one that has all of the upgrades and custom work done already so all you have to do is drop a bit more cash up front.

Here are two of the top end CZ Custom guns but if you buy your factory Shadow from CZ Custom they should be able to perform any specific upgrades that interest you.

http://czcustom.com/cz75shadowcustomblk.aspx

http://czcustom.com/czcaccushadowliteblk.aspx

There are also some great threads here and on czfirearms.us about DIY trigger jobs and recommended reliability tweaks.

CZ Custom, CZ USA, and Cajun Gun Works sell some great parts for doing your own work/upgrades. You can also consider Matthew Mink's Automatic Accuracy for top of the line competition work on CZ guns. http://automaticaccuracy.net/

Edited May 4, 2014 by alma

[alma]

I can't answer your question directly about whether the Short Reset DA modification can make the trigger just as good as the SA because I don't own a 75 SA. I suspect, however, it's incredibly close when done right. A well done DA/SA trigger in SA is around 2lb with almost no pretravel.

[alma]

Also, is you want to buy a high end Shadow in DA/SA or SA then keep an eye on the classifieds here. You frequently see very nice CZs being offered with all of the most desirable enhancements.

For example on the SA side http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=192877&view=&hl=&fromsearch=1

[chuck s]

My shadow with a mink trigger and srt mod is as good in SA as my tanfoglio limited gun with Henning SAO trigger, and it is really crisp. I do not think a stock CZ will give you any benefit over the glock ,and the learning curve for the first shot will be steep. With a mink trigger there are advantages over a glock in my opinion. Pretty hard to beat a Glock from where I stand.

[rowdyb]

i shot a g34 for a year and then switched to a sao 75b, shooting idpa. i shoot groups half the size of the g34 with my cz at 25 yards off hand.

i love the sao trigger. i love the minimal felt recoil of the 75b.

with the glock being lighter i had a faster draw. i also had an easier time with hitting the slide release during reloads with the glock than the cz. it took me about a week of dry fire to get used takinf off a safety during the draw and the difference in my natural index w either pistol.

i really like my g34 and that product generally. but my results in matches has improved shooting the 75b, both locally and at sanctioned as well.

[brianr34]

Thanks for the info rowdyb. Yes, when I checked out a 75B, it seemed like it would be difficult for me to activate the slide release with my strong hand thumb.

I was kind of hoping that the slide would drop when a mag is inserted.

Is your CZ as reliable as the typical Glock?

[alma]

The Shadow / SP01 side stop is a bit longer than the stock one on the 75B so it may help.

http://czcustom.com/CZ_slide_stops.aspx

Edited May 5, 2014 by alma

[brianr34]

Can the SP01 longer slide stop be installed on a 75 Shadow SAO frame easily?

[RexKramer]

Can the SP01 longer slide stop be installed on a 75 Shadow SAO frame easily?

I believe one would need to bevel the corner of the 75 Shadow safety to get it to fit. (or replace it with one that is like the SP01 safety).

I've contemplated doing just what you've suggested, but wonder how it would affect keeping the gun legal for SSP/ESP in IDPA and Production in USPSA.

[thompsoncustom]

I was kind of hoping that the slide would drop when a mag is inserted.

All my CZ's have always dropped the slide when the mag is ran home.

[rowdyb]

none of my cz's auto drop the slide when seating a magazine. i have even taken a file to where the stop inserts into the slide to increase this likelyhood and still nothing.

i also installed a sp01 slide stop on my 75b and made a big difference. it was plug and play, nothing needed to be done to change it.

my cz has been every bit as reliable as my glocks. i had to loctite a trigger travel reset screw as it was backing out and causing the trigger not to reset and that's been it. i consider that an initial set up thing, not a reliability thing.

my cz likes my reloads to have a little shorter OAL than the glock.

[JeffJ99]

It was like buying skill for me. The harder, longer shots are easier with the CZ for me. The close up stuff is about the same. Manipulations are about the same.

[razorfish]

My CZ's also drop the slide when a magazine is inserted. It helps to "firmly" seat a loaded mag.

Also, I've heard if you upgrade to a CZ SP01 Custom Accu-Shadow, you only need point the gun in the "general" direction of the target and pull the trigger. Alphas EVERY time.

Sounds too good to be true, but I can personally verify this is the case. After trying out my friends Accu-Shadow at match last week I was amazed to find that not only did the gun shoot alphas EVERY time, it even pasted the holes!!!

[thompsoncustom]

you only need point the gun in the "general" direction of the target and pull the trigger. Alphas EVERY time

Ya I think there is a little technique to dropping the slide by inserting the mag. I find that if your palm hits the frame by the main spring plug it takes a lot less force than just inserting the mag. I just got a New CZ 75 shadow the other day and the slide stop is nice and tight but I can still drop the slide by putting the mag in without much force.

[Triggerf16]

I have found that if you seat the mag firmly 90-degrees to the barrel axis, the slide does not release. But if you seat the mag at a 45-degree angle to the barrel axis, pushing forward from the heel of the frame to the muzzle as you seat the magazine home, the slide will auto release every time.

I think when you goose the frame forward as you seat the mag, it releases the tension on the slide stop and allows the spring to release the slidestop from the slide, sending the slide forward.

[twowheels]

My shadows reliably drop the slide when hammering a mag home. They have done that since new. I love my CZs and really can't contemplate shooting anything else.