wgnoyes Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) REVISED: Here's two nationals from last year. I was getting "low on space" messages in 1.2.0 on matches with 155 competitors, 12 stages last august. (Link) You say you've done optimizations since then. Maybe they helped. The way we score major matches, a given nook never sees more than 1/4 of the total scores for one stage, so response time isn't hopefully that much of an issue. Must not be, we use them in GA State every year. So since I didn't remember correctly, that's on me and I owe you an apology on this particular item. (Apology withdrawn) But here are some large matches to play with anyway. I'm sure you are seeing other devices used to score matches. In Canada. Here, practiscore has taken on a life of its own with USPSA clubs PRECISELY BECAUSE of the nook simple touch. (What, you can't get those readily up there?) Between its low price, screen readability, and battery life, clubs all over USPSA are selecting it as the platform of choice as opposed to real android tablets or apple iWhatnots, both of which cost significantly more per unit. There are downsides of course, and even you finally admitted they were slower than real android devices. (Same link, msg#44) But the price/ battery/ screen is just impossible to ignore. You're always making sure it works on a nook? Good, glad you've come around. 2013nationals.zip Edited February 18, 2014 by wgnoyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 EUXX, I know you're in here right now, before you get happy replying, I just found what I was referring to, and it changes lots of what I wrote. Hold off a minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Bill, we can't use this or any other forum as an issue tracking tool. Please use proper channels to report issues. I am not going to argue with you, but please dont twist my words. When we last confronted, I said "if you say so". That was it. Now I'll go back to the issue tracker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdphotoguy Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Honestly--- if a data dictionary was available EXCEL could be use as a data entry device and a little macro function create the data format needed to upload the scores... Excel is a great tool when used to it's limits... With a combination of PS and Excel I've saved our ICORE club from having to score on paper and then rekey the scores into Excel to calculate the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I've twisted nothing. And you now have 2 large matches to play with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) I just want it understood that I was not trying to insult anyone here or criticize their work, which appears to be what some people think I am saying. But, since I cannot get across the point that there's lot's of electonic-phobic people out there who won't go anywhere near this until it's packed up and spoon fed to them as a complete 100% turn-key solution, for the entire process, I'm going to bow out of this discussion. Edited February 18, 2014 by Graham Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwren Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) This thread is (once again) diverging, but on the more or less original topic, but this is my take. The reality is that for ANY given technology, be it paper and an adding machine, paper and EZWS, Practiscore, PractiScore + EZWS, there's a point where you have to say "You must be this tall to use this technology". "But PractiScore is SO complicated! We understand EZWS!" -- Well, there's lots of people who have no clue on how to drive a PC and/or use EZWS. There's never going to be an idiot-proof, any-moron-can-use technology, at least, not until we start letting AI's run matches. "But paper was so easy!" -- EXCUSE ME?!? Maybe all YOUR people have perfect handwriting, and can add columns of numbers with no errors, but those people don't live in GA. And if you *really* like keying in scoresheets for 3 hours after a match, power to you. There's always going to be some level of complexity. Those who "grow up" with the technology understand it better than those who adopt it and adapt to it (assuming an average user base, and not the people pushing the techology). Shooters (THE CUSTOMERS) are starting to expect instant scoring more and more. And I sure as hell don't miss wasting the better part of a Sunday trying to decode poor handwriting, fixing bad math, and the multitude of other sins that go with a paper match. So the competitors have to work a *teensy* bit harder and tap buttons on a tablet to get those instant scores. I'm good with that. Edited February 18, 2014 by jcwren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Oh there most definitely are electronic-phobic folks out there, I never said there weren't. As much as we try to take all the propeller-head stuff out of it, there are still folks for whom NO electronic scoring system will EVER be easy enough to set up and use, whether it be practiscore or even ezwinscore. I don't care how turnkey you make it. Hell, i was in an apple store one time and a customer there actually asked one of the "apple geniuses" (they're really called that) how to attach his apple Smart Cover to his iPad! That kind of person will NEVER be useful as a volunteer on the scoring end of things, and they just need to be shown something else that they can do to help promote the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 With a combination of PS and Excel I've saved our ICORE club from having to score on paper and then rekey the scores into Excel to calculate the results. I would love to know how you do this. Our ICORE guy said he wasn't interested in electronic scoring but I'd like to try and change his mind "But paper was so easy!" -- EXCUSE ME?!? Maybe all YOUR people have perfect handwriting, and can add columns of numbers with no errors, but those people don't live in GA. And if you *really* like keying in scoresheets for 3 hours after a match, power to you. Hey now...oh wait you're from GA so GA bashing is okay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwren Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 And beyond rootnscoreit itself, there is no non-standard software used in the process flow of scoring a match. At least not the way we do it. [snip] I had no real trouble doing this (once I got unconfused last year this time over which process to use) and applaud anyone who can make the process simpler. But hacking voids the warranty which is something that, by itself, is going to stop a lot of people in their tracks. [snip] While technically it probably does, as long as the unit is somewhat operational, you can restore it to factory defaults. If it's non-operational, hook 110V to the USB port, make SURE it's dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdphotoguy Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 With a combination of PS and Excel I've saved our ICORE club from having to score on paper and then rekey the scores into Excel to calculate the results. I would love to know how you do this. Our ICORE guy said he wasn't interested in electronic scoring but I'd like to try and change his mind Email sent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I've twisted nothing. And you now have 2 large matches to play with. Just to prove my point, I loaded your 2013Open-L10Nationals_DevinsiPad.psc to my S3 phone, then synced it to one of the Nooks running 1.2.11 release and you know what, I didn't see any significant slowness while I was tapping around. It took about 5 seconds to generate and show combined overall results on the Nook and I haven't noticed any slow down while navigating trough stages, squads, competitors and tapping on the scoring screens. I also made a memory dump from that Nook and apparently it only using about 12mb of memory to hold an entire match with all 300+ competitors and 6000+ scores. Now we are back where we started, i.e. need more detailed and better structured reports on such issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 REVISED: Here's two nationals from last year. I was getting "low on space" messages in 1.2.0 on matches with 155 competitors, 12 stages last august. (Link) You say you've done optimizations since then. Maybe they helped. ... I've twisted nothing. And you now have 2 large matches to play with. Just to prove my point, I loaded your 2013Open-L10Nationals_DevinsiPad.psc to my S3 phone, then synced it to one of the Nooks running 1.2.11 release and you know what, I didn't see any significant slowness while I was tapping around. It took about 5 seconds to generate and show combined overall results on the Nook and I haven't noticed any slow down while navigating trough stages, squads, competitors and tapping on the scoring screens. I also made a memory dump from that Nook and apparently it only using about 12mb of memory to hold an entire match with all 300+ competitors and 6000+ scores. Now we are back where we started, i.e. need more detailed and better structured reports on such issues. PLEASE try to read more carefully. You can clearly see that I WAS (past tense) getting "low on space" on 1.2.0 and you said you've done optimizations since then. Apparently that has helped. Thank you for that. I remembered what was going on before. If you've fixed it, good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 PLEASE try to read more carefully. You can clearly see that I WAS (past tense) getting "low on space" on 1.2.0 and you said you've done optimizations since then. Apparently that has helped. Thank you for that. I remembered what was going on before. If you've fixed it, good. If you pay attention to the timestamps, your post at 12:01PM said that I have to play with two matches. Anyways, please report issues (in present tense) at https://practiscore.com/bugs/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (English as a second language...) That you "have" to play with two matches? No, I wasn't requiring it. "Have" can mean two different things. I've twisted nothing. And you now have 2 large matches to play with. "Have" as used here means you now possess two large match files with which to play and research possible performance issues. You---, oh to hell with it! I'm just going to follow your own advice to yourself and ignore anything you say. You'll be happier. I'll damn sure be happier and far more productive, and I'm sure everyone else will be happier, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Bill, I take you haven't got the irony... Please save everyone's time and stop talking about issues you have had. They are don't matter anymore. Reporting issues you still experiencing yourself and can help us to help you by providing data that would for sure make everyone happier, including you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 No bickering. Regardless of the subject matter. I think we've crossed that line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctay Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I just want it understood that I was not trying to insult anyone here or criticize their work, which appears to be what some people think I am saying. But, since I cannot get across the point that there's lot's of electonic-phobic people out there who won't go anywhere near this until it's packed up and spoon fed to them as a complete 100% turn-key solution, for the entire process, I'm going to bow out of this discussion. Graham - I totally understand what you are saying. Remember also that you don't have to use a nook. You can use a iPad or regular Android device with no special changes needed. Just another app. People are easily scared of the unknown - which I think is largely your point - and I totally agree. Unfortunately I'm not sure that is an issue that can be fixed with software and I don't think we should hold back progress because some don't want to progress (I realize you never said that - just stating my own opinion here). Electronic scoring - like electronic everything else - is the future. Heck I heard that even numbers will be digital next year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak47traxx Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Looks like the nook ST has been discontinued. They are getting hard to find new in box. Around here anyway. http://www.geekwire.com/2014/barnes-noble-discontinues-nook-touch/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwren Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Sucks! Well, the GlowLight (BNRV350), although more expensive, seems to be very similar. It's still an 800MHz processor, 256MB, 4 GB flash, WiFi. It's still running the same version of Android (2.1 Eclair), which is unfortunate. You can run up to Gingerbread 2.3.7 with 256MB, but to go Honeycomb (3.x) and above, you need 512MB. The loss of the SD card is an inconvenience, but not a deal-breaker. The ridge buttons on the side are gone, which I really liked for scrolling through lists. There are some people who have rooted it, and I guess I'll have to pick one up and try it. The e-Ink is what makes the device so readable in sunlight, but at that price, it's time to start looking for alternatives. I wonder if there's going to be huge run to buy the old NSTs, and they'll command high prices, or if we'll see a massive dump on eBay, and they can be had for a song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 Well I'm glad that came out before we bought a bunch of them for our club. Guess we will have to decide to be discontinued technology or invest in more expensive tablets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwren Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 No brainer. Buy the NOOKs. Buy a couple extras, and there will be more offerings by the time you need to replace them. And even if you have to replace one, you don't need to replace them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 No brainer. Buy the NOOKs. Buy a couple extras, and there will be more offerings by the time you need to replace them. And even if you have to replace one, you don't need to replace them all. Agreed. As long as you can still get them new, buy them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadarTech Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 No brainer. Buy the NOOKs. Buy a couple extras, and there will be more offerings by the time you need to replace them. And even if you have to replace one, you don't need to replace them all.Agreed. As long as you can still get them new, buy them. +1 By the time something better comes along at a price point we want, we may have reached the end of usability on the nook platform... I think the device is at a price point for entry now that can't be ignored.. 2 years from now it will be like an old laptop.. We may decide to replace and move on.... We just got 6.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm going to recommend we go ahead with the Nooks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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