sperman Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Does anyone have any experience with this app? It looks like an International version similar to Practiscore. MSSC System Referee https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=aig.mssc.main Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Lots of interest based on Facebook but the big question is cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 I think it is available for download on GooglePlay, but I have an iPhone so I can't check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 It is and I was doing to download it just to check it out but is all caps sentence told me it would be a waste of time: "ATTENTION. OPERATIONAL THIS APP IS ONLY IF YOUR CLUB / FEDERATION / SPORT ENTITY IS DISCHARGED IN SYSTEM WIRTEX MSSC. IF NOT, DO NOT DOWNLOAD AND CAN NOT ACCESS" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlgentlegiant Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 From what I have seen on Facebook it looks like the app for handheld is just data entry and the main scoring functions require a server backend. Looks like it has a lot of functionality that might be nice for big matches but it looks very complex, costly and since the developer is in France I wonder just how much support will be provided and at what cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) Quoting Jay Corn from USPSA Area 6 on FB: For the Florida State Championship we tried a new scoring software named Wirtex. The overall review and response was very good. Scores were posted live on TV screens and print outs were available for competitors using an RFID card. Scores were exported to EZWinScore and the uploaded to USPSA only minutes after the last shot.There were some definite new features that applied to match management that have not been seen in other programs. The Range Master has a master console on his phone (Note II) where he could watch squad and match progression down to the shooter level. It was helpful to know if and when there was to be a back up. It also had meters to show battery levels of the individual tablets so stats could be there before a problem. Stages had a check in process to see when a shooter showed and when they did not. If they went home it let you know so you weren't waiting for a ghost. It also had an optional check box for equipment compliance. There were several more features but the idea is it worked wellWe plan to use it at the Florida Open next. He has the software name wrong; it's MSSC as you all have already figured out. Website http://wirtex.wirtexsports.com/index.php/en/ Edited January 21, 2014 by wgnoyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgkeller Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 This was the cat's meow. Instantaneous updating and calculations using a wireless LAN. Stage scoring went smoothly. Major matches will provide great service to the shooters and save a bunch of costs on stat people. No paper - except for a little receipt thingy a shooter could get if he wished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm300 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 All from reading on their web site and from what I gathered from the guys in FL, so take this with a grain of salt. For a big match I like the structure of the app. Lots of levels of backup built in. Real time scoring is very cool for a larger match. Some of the match flow features are cool as well. For sure the RM could just drive around the range but............. I think there is a place for both something like this and something like Practiscore. Just a thought, if someone was to come to a 400 person match and say, we will handle sign up, squading, scoring, hardware, software etc and they want say a fee per shooter and a couple of entries. Would you think about it? Think about how much time and effort is put into that part of the match. How much simpler would it be? They show up with a trailer, the wifi setup etc etc etc. You just think about running the match and not stats. They do it a lot so they are very good at it. You do stats 2 or 3 times a year at most. I am sure it would depend on the fee but it would be tempting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Just a thought, if someone was to come to a 400 person match and say, we will handle sign up, squading, scoring, hardware, software etc and they want say a fee per shooter and a couple of entries. Would you think about it? Think about how much time and effort is put into that part of the match. How much simpler would it be? They show up with a trailer, the wifi setup etc etc etc. You just think about running the match and not stats. They do it a lot so they are very good at it. You do stats 2 or 3 times a year at most. It's a niche market but it could work. Look at 5K running events. There are companies that handle timing for them so it could be done. One possible issue is the actual scoring. Would you, as the service provider, provide the staff to score on the tablets or would you expect the match to provide scorers? That would be one area that would need to be worked through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm300 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 The RO's would have to score. If you had to provide 10 or 15 scorekeepers that would drive the cost up too high. The app would have to be simple, training would have to be provided. On a 5k the scoring is pretty simple. Sign people up and time when they cross the line with the transponder. I don't want to do it, I just think someone that likes to shoot, is free enough to travel to say 15 or 20 majors a year might see it as a business opportunity with some fun involved. Would the MD's pay for it? No idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 It looks like this is an interesting option for a major. I'm not sure what the cost is, or how the match would justify the cost, if they already have a box full of Droids and volunteers to run stats. I was hoping it would be something viable for local match use, but it doesn't sound like that is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm300 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 It looks like this is an interesting option for a major. I'm not sure what the cost is, or how the match would justify the cost, if they already have a box full of Droids and volunteers to run stats. I was hoping it would be something viable for local match use, but it doesn't sound like that is the case. I think you are correct about it not being an option for local clubs. Practiscore seems to fit that niche pretty well. Low cost, fairly easy to run. I think Practiscore starts to run into limitations in the larger matches and paper backup is a PITA. The alternative to paper backup is to sync the nooks a lot which is not perfect and also a small PITA with a hole. If a nook dies you loose what it had between the last sync and when it dies. Could be a lot of re-shoots. A server based program using the scoring device as the backup is at least two levels deep. If you add some redundant hardware to the server and infrastructure you should be able to get to a very solid solution. As an MD if you could just not have to think about stats, signup, or scoring you would be able to put more focus on the match and produce a better product. I think the idea that this needs to be an 100% volunteer sport is already being challenged by group like The Universal Shooting Academy. The put on a good match, good prizes, and make money on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadarTech Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 For sure the infrastructure will be $$$ I posted a lowball figure from my thoughts on the A6 facebook post Bill references.. I think it would be at least $5K and that assumes a small range with CHEAP wifi and a cheap server.. no server redundancy and no license cost for the software.... With the new updates coming to PS and all the hush hush changes with that, AND the BOD signing off on stuff from the tech summit I think we will see some serious scoring changes coming up..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) .... I think Practiscore starts to run into limitations in the larger matches and paper backup is a PITA. ... Paper backup is an inconvenience, but it's also a rulebook requirement, regardless of what system is used to record the data. You have to give the competitor a paper scoresheet showing his performance on the stage. Edited January 25, 2014 by wgnoyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 What we really need is a small portable battery powered printer that costs n more than a nook. We have given paper sheets to our shooters to record their scores, so far less than one person has taken advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgkeller Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 When USPSA finds a suitable scoring system, issue a rule that approves that scoring system and exempt matches that use that system from the paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) What we really need is a small portable battery powered printer that costs n more than a nook. We have given paper sheets to our shooters to record their scores, so far less than one person has taken advantage. EVERYONE at our matches fills in the backup scoresheets from the nooks, as a part of having and running the "clipboard". They understand its a necessary part of scoring. They also use the scoresheets, which they carry from stage to stage, to maintain their shooting order within squads. And I've had to go back to the paper before to fill in a score that somehow didn't get saved. There already is such a printer, a Brother wireless label printer. Load it with a plain paper roll and print 2 copies, one for the competitor and one for stats. However, the only version of practiscore that has printing capability built in (and that's part of the operating system, not PS) is on the iOS platform. Edited January 26, 2014 by wgnoyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm300 Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 I did a match with the Palm at A6 a couple of years ago and I am pretty sure we did not do a paper backup. The shooter signed the palm to say the agreed with the score. Is there a way in PS to let the shooter confirm they agree with the score as entered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Well, you can show the competitor the summary page and see if he agrees with it, but there's no sign-off programmatic function. A paper scoresheet is a rulebook requirement at Lvl2 and Lvl3 matches. (9.11.2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm300 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I wonder if there was an exception made for the Palm system as I am pretty sure we did not do paper at A8 two years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 Last time I shot A8 they had the little fortune cookie strips they handed to the shooters. It was not ideal, but better than no record at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadarTech Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I go back to what happened at limited nats in 2013... They use PS and had a paper backup. they way it worked was this: EVERY stage had a custom sheet with the stage name etc there... When you got there you filled out the stage paper, they scored with iPads. and then they wrote your score via the review function.. THEN you got the yellow copy after you signed it..... About that time, you got an email with your scores in it and a link to practiscore for the up to date info for the match... I think that worked good.... Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Well, you can show the competitor the summary page and see if he agrees with it, but there's no sign-off programmatic function. A paper scoresheet is a rulebook requirement at Lvl2 and Lvl3 matches. (9.11.2) I should look this up but I'll just ask you instead . Does the rule book specify when the competitor must review / sign off on paper? I wonder how this was handled at the FL State Championship. I know folks said they could go to printers throughout the range to print scores but at what point in time did the shooters actually acknowledge their scores on paper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 9.11.2 (Feb 2014; might as well start thinking in terms of the new rulebook) When electronic scoring is used, once stage scoring is completed, (emphasis added - Bn) every competitor shall be provided the opportunity to review the PDA or handheld computer display to review their stage time and score entries. At Level II or higher matches, (emphasis added) range officers shall also create a hard copy record that includes the hit and penalty totals, time, time of day, competitor initials and range officer initials for each stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgkeller Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 At FL state shooter signed pad. Hard copy including sig were available at printing station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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