Blaise1 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I was shooting a local USPSA match today and was using a Blade Tek retention holster and had one of the RO's tell me that I should have had the hood latched at the start of the COF. I've heard this once or twice before but always argued that guys running race holsters don't have to start locked down. Can someone give me a rule that says all retention systems must be engaged or not? FWIW I was shooting Limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Here's the rule: 5.2.5.3 Unless specified in the written stage briefing, or unless required by a Range Officer, the position of holsters and allied equipment must not be moved or changed by a competitor during a match. If a retaining strap is attached to a holster or magazine pouch, it must be applied or closed prior to issuance of the “Standby” command. I'd agree with the call. You have broad choice of holsters -- you could select a different one..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Good call by the RO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Next question. Do you see any value to this portion of the rule anymore. The race holster manufacturers did a pretty good job getting around it by not using straps anymore. I hate seeing someone show up at the range with uncompetitive gear and be told they need to use all the straps and make it worse. Then see the next guy come to the line with his 014 and unlock it. Would we lose much eliminating this? Any suggestions for a re-word? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 No need to reword it . Just delete it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaise1 Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Thanks Nik. I agree with Sarge, I don't see where this rule is needed if the holster holds the gun securely and covers the trigger guard already. Until then I'll just keep shooting my 3gun rig with the strap locked and work harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Next question. Do you see any value to this portion of the rule anymore. The race holster manufacturers did a pretty good job getting around it by not using straps anymore. I hate seeing someone show up at the range with uncompetitive gear and be told they need to use all the straps and make it worse. Then see the next guy come to the line with his 014 and unlock it. Would we lose much eliminating this? Any suggestions for a re-word? Chuck, I think we could lose this also. My only concern would be gun retention -- but since the RM still has the ability to declare a particular holster unsafe, we can deal with it...... Are there any duty holsters out there that become unsafe from a retention standpoint if they are used with retention features inactivated? I'm thinking of LEOs competing at Level 1 matches -- I think I can evaluate most competition/concealed carry gear pretty well, but don't know my way around duty holsters. Any concerns? If no, then make the motion..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Thanks Nik. I agree with Sarge, I don't see where this rule is needed if the holster holds the gun securely and covers the trigger guard already. Until then I'll just keep shooting my 3gun rig with the strap locked and work harder. Even if the rule changes, there might be a situation where you'd want to start with retention engaged to prevent a gun drop.... I wasn't trying to bust your chops -- just to provide the rule you asked for.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Next question. Do you see any value to this portion of the rule anymore. The race holster manufacturers did a pretty good job getting around it by not using straps anymore. I hate seeing someone show up at the range with uncompetitive gear and be told they need to use all the straps and make it worse. Then see the next guy come to the line with his 014 and unlock it. Would we lose much eliminating this? Any suggestions for a re-word? Chuck, I think we could lose this also. My only concern would be gun retention -- but since the RM still has the ability to declare a particular holster unsafe, we can deal with it...... Are there any duty holsters out there that become unsafe from a retention standpoint if they are used with retention features inactivated? I'm thinking of LEOs competing at Level 1 matches -- I think I can evaluate most competition/concealed carry gear pretty well, but don't know my way around duty holsters. Any concerns? If no, then make the motion..... +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I don't see any problem with losing the rule. However, if I bought a holster with such a device, I would use it on every draw. Why pay for a feature on a holster then not use it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaise1 Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Gary, it's more like having an a 1-6 scope on a rifle. I can hit just about anything I can see with 1x but I sure do feel better with a variable. I can tighten the screws down on most holsters and feel 95% secure but if I've got that extra bit of security I'm not going to worry as much about my pistol falling out or getting hung and pulled out resulting in a DQ. Since I shoot 3 Gun primarily that's the gear I use. And yes, I should be starting every stage locked down, I agree with that on the premise of familiarity and consistency. But, when it comes to drawing from a static start position I just don't feel the need for the extra retention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaise1 Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Nik, I know you weren't busting my chops, I really do appreciate you posting the rule. I'll probably just keep using this holster and get smoother. I'm sure it'll perturb quite a few when they get beat by the guy shooting minor and running a thumbbreak lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Good thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Nik, I know you weren't busting my chops, I really do appreciate you posting the rule. I'll probably just keep using this holster and get smoother. I'm sure it'll perturb quite a few when they get beat by the guy shooting minor and running a thumbbreak lol. It doesn't even have to perturb others, if it amuses you.... I once shot a club match, where my back decided to go out at the end of the first of five or six stages, and I went home. When the results were posted, I had the top score in Production on that stage, and to my even greater amusement hadn't finished dead last in Production, but had actually amassed sufficient match points to beat a couple of other competitors..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Nik, I know you weren't busting my chops, I really do appreciate you posting the rule. I'll probably just keep using this holster and get smoother. I'm sure it'll perturb quite a few when they get beat by the guy shooting minor and running a thumbbreak lol. It doesn't even have to perturb others, if it amuses you.... I once shot a club match, where my back decided to go out at the end of the first of five or six stages, and I went home. When the results were posted, I had the top score in Production on that stage, and to my even greater amusement hadn't finished dead last in Production, but had actually amassed sufficient match points to beat a couple of other competitors..... Pretty stiff competition that day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim/GA Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 That is a rule I would like to see deleted as well. As a local club MD/RM I have only ever seen either holsters OR mag pouches with retaining devices on a few LEOs and all the rest were on new shooters who were trying us out for the first few times with gear they owned. Just like we advised them to do. I hate to advise them to shoot what they have that way and then have to penalize them by when we make them button the flaps on the mag pouches, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 If the LEO/s are shooting USPSA with their duty gear, then good for them. Learning to shoot with a bit of artificial stress, including retention devices, may pay dividends when it becomes real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMV Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) If the LEO/s are shooting USPSA with their duty gear, then good for them. Learning to shoot with a bit of artificial stress, including retention devices, may pay dividends when it becomes real life. X1,000. Absolutely. Still wish I could figure out how to get more of my cohorts to shoot USPSA. Edited January 12, 2014 by CMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davsco Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 question - is the "hood" on the bladetech WRS holster considered a "restraining strap?" I'm thinking the rule pertains to thumb-break/snap straps which possibly could cause a safety issue if they were left flopping around and interfered with a safe draw. not the case on the WRS as the hood stays well out of the way if left open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 The rule specifically states "retaining strap" so IMO a hood does not qualify. This is another example of why the rule is out of date and no longer necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I can live without the rule as well but I disagree. I think the way the rule was written intended for any and all straps, hoods, etc to be engaged. There is already an exception being granted to allow duty gear. That indicates there is a perceived advantage to shooting the gear in certain rigs. Allowing a hood to be swung out of the way prior to the start is even more of an advantage. I feel if the rule is there we should follow it and require duty rigs be used as designed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 The duty gear exemption was put in because it isn't an advantage, but because most LE duty gear doesn't comply with the rules in regards to placement. Seems kind of silly to tell the LEO that shows up his triple security holster and double flapped mag pouch is to gamer and then have the Open shooter walk by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 And if it does not comply with the rules then it COULD be considered an advantage with certain rigs. And like I said either we follow the rule or get rid of it. Makes no difference but it should be one or the other. And calling him a gamer and have an open shooter walk by is not the point. The point seems to be to have him show up with a drop holster and mag pouches in the front and call him legal when a PRODUCTION shooter walks by. That would be silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I can live without the rule as well but I disagree. I think the way the rule was written intended for any and all straps, hoods, etc to be engaged. There is already an exception being granted to allow duty gear. That indicates there is a perceived advantage to shooting the gear in certain rigs. Allowing a hood to be swung out of the way prior to the start is even more of an advantage. I feel if the rule is there we should follow it and require duty rigs be used as designed I would agree with you if the rule said retention device, but it specifically says strap. How far do you wan to take it? Every race holster has a locking device. Do they need to be engaged when the buzzer goes off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I can live without the rule as well but I disagree. I think the way the rule was written intended for any and all straps, hoods, etc to be engaged. There is already an exception being granted to allow duty gear. That indicates there is a perceived advantage to shooting the gear in certain rigs. Allowing a hood to be swung out of the way prior to the start is even more of an advantage. I feel if the rule is there we should follow it and require duty rigs be used as designed I would agree with you if the rule said retention device, but it specifically says strap. How far do you wan to take it? Every race holster has a locking device. Do they need to be engaged when the buzzer goes off? Most race holsters are not duty gear. There are no rules saying they must be locked. But there is a rule for duty gear. Like I said, dump the rule, or follow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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