shel6977 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Well I'm looking to get some trigger work done on my M&P Pro and looking for some advice on it. I will only be using it to shoot some USPSA in the spring and then just to tinker around with. I'm in between doing a competitoon Apex kit but I've been in contact with Mike at Accurate Iron. I've heard good about both, especially Accurate Iron, but not sure what to do. My main concern is if I ever need warranty work done, will anything aftermarket done to the trigger void a warranty? I would have to ship the gun to Mike so that will add some more money to the equation also. What do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awfaxis Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Something you need to consider for USPSA; are you wanting to shoot Production or Limited. If you do a trigger job which includes any visible external mods, this takes you out of production. An full APEX mod is not complete unless you go with the FSS trigger, which is obvious visually. As for the Accurate one, looks like they install some screw to take up the pre-travel. If this is visible, then its off production also. For my money, the APEX route is something that can be reversed if you need to send it back to S&W. Don't know what all happens with the gunsmith route. For a production legal home job, just get the APEX springs (striker and return), replace the USB, and get some wet/dry sand paper and polish out the two contact points on the trigger bar. 1. Smooth out the portion which pushes on the USB. It is the grittiness everyone feels on a new gun. 2. Polish up the shepard's hook portion that contacts the sear. 3. Open or close up the hook itself to adjust for early or late trigger release, your preference. 4. Carefully radius the safety catch on the trigger safety so that the trigger doesn't hang up. A lighter return spring makes this a problem sometimes. We're talking about 15-30 minutes work here, except for the USB. You might need a local gunny to push the sights on and off for the USB install. If you're willing to go with externally visible mods, get the FSS trigger kit. It's the biggest bang for the money. It needs some careful adjustments on the shepard's hook to ensure the USB is out of the way before the sear releases, otherwise you get light strikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shel6977 Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) Something you need to consider for USPSA; are you wanting to shoot Production or Limited. If you do a trigger job which includes any visible external mods, this takes you out of production. An full APEX mod is not complete unless you go with the FSS trigger, which is obvious visually. As for the Accurate one, looks like they install some screw to take up the pre-travel. If this is visible, then its off production also. For my money, the APEX route is something that can be reversed if you need to send it back to S&W. Don't know what all happens with the gunsmith route. For a production legal home job, just get the APEX springs (striker and return), replace the USB, and get some wet/dry sand paper and polish out the two contact points on the trigger bar. 1. Smooth out the portion which pushes on the USB. It is the grittiness everyone feels on a new gun. 2. Polish up the shepard's hook portion that contacts the sear. 3. Open or close up the hook itself to adjust for early or late trigger release, your preference. 4. Carefully radius the safety catch on the trigger safety so that the trigger doesn't hang up. A lighter return spring makes this a problem sometimes. We're talking about 15-30 minutes work here, except for the USB. You might need a local gunny to push the sights on and off for the USB install. If you're willing to go with externally visible mods, get the FSS trigger kit. It's the biggest bang for the money. It needs some careful adjustments on the shepard's hook to ensure the USB is out of the way before the sear releases, otherwise you get light strikes. I should have said in the first post. This is my first year to competition shooting so I was thinking I would stay in production since that's the most simple cost effective. Edited January 3, 2014 by shel6977 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awfaxis Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 For production, then items some springs and steps 1-4 above would do it. I forget to mention that you can put in an APEX RAM, but this is only relevant if you care about trigger reset. Putting in a lighter trigger return spring actually softens the reset, so a RAM is kind of counters that. It will never quite feel like a Glock, but close. There is also a kludge reset enhancement which involves pulling out the slide stop bar assembly, and squeezing it a bit to make it push on the trigger bar. S&W has added material to the inner portion of the slide stop in order to do the same thing, but this is on very late builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfish Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Accurate Iron should be able to put over-travel stops inside the gun and keep it production legal. Most people that have had apex kits and guns done by gunsmiths say that a gunsmith trigger is much better then any of the apex kits. A good gunsmith should be able to give you the "Phantom 1911" like trigger job that everyone talks about and keep it production legal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0kawn Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Just received my new pro back from Dan Burwell, and I absolutely love the work he did. It's sitting at about 3.5#, has an excellent reset and shorter pre travel with his welded over travel stop in the frame. Nothing externally visible and it's a fantastic feel. Highly recommend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsthat Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Just received my new pro back from Dan Burwell, and I absolutely love the work he did. It's sitting at about 3.5#, has an excellent reset and shorter pre travel with his welded over travel stop in the frame. Nothing externally visible and it's a fantastic feel. Highly recommend! wow, was it hard getting ahold of Dan? Would you mind taking some pics of the mods that he put in place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0kawn Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Not hard at all. Initially contacted him on Facebook, then emailed via contact page on his web site for his wife to get me on the schedule. Adequate communication and fantastic work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shel6977 Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 Not hard at all. Initially contacted him on Facebook, then emailed via contact page on his web site for his wife to get me on the schedule. Adequate communication and fantastic work. I sent him a messege on Facebook 3 weeks ago and haven't heard anything from him. I totally understand being busy but I'm not going to hunt the guy down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Just received my new pro back from Dan Burwell, and I absolutely love the work he did. It's sitting at about 3.5#, has an excellent reset and shorter pre travel with his welded over travel stop in the frame. Nothing externally visible and it's a fantastic feel. Highly recommend! The Burwell trigger jobs I've seen would not (in my opinion) be Production-legal... the blob of weld he applies to the trigger bar to reduce take-up causes an externally visible change (the trigger starts further back). Will you get caught? Probably not, but I could not do it as I would know. Integrity is doing what is right, even when nobody is looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I should have said in the first post. This is my first year to competition shooting so I was thinking I would stay in production since that's the most simple cost effective. For Production, I would recommend buying a complete Apex DCAEK kit. It is a simple-to-install drop-in fit, requires no polishing etc., and all the parts are designed to work together to yield an outstandingly smooth trigger pull that remains 100% USPSA Production legal. It will be hard to shave off much cost or get a better trigger that is still Production legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0kawn Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 From what I can tell comparing it to my stock m&p, the trigger does not sit any further back at rest and there is no blob of a weld on the trigger bar when looking in. I suppose it's possible it may sit back further, but I can't detect that. The only weld i can tell is the over travel spot, which is so smooth to the factory parts you wouldn't know it's there if it was painted black. Also, this is in a pistol I've dedicated to 3 gun, with no intentions of shooting production ever (brass magwell, tungsten guide rod, stippling in non approved production locations, extended mag release). I only state this as you quoted my post and suggest "will you get caught? Probably not." I'm hiding nothing and getting over on nobody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) The Burwell trigger jobs I've seen would not (in my opinion) be Production-legal... the blob of weld he applies to the trigger bar to reduce take-up causes an externally visible change (the trigger starts further back). Will you get caught? Probably not, but I could not do it as I would know. Integrity is doing what is right, even when nobody is looking. That is not a correct interpretation of the rules. You can modify any parts inside, as long as the modification to the parts is not visible from the outside. It does not matter that the trigger is set further back. If it was not legal for Production, it would not be done that way. Edited January 14, 2014 by Loves2Shoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 ... I only state this as you quoted my post and suggest "will you get caught? Probably not." I'm hiding nothing and getting over on nobody. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply this of you personally... just a general comment about the Burwell trigger and Production division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 The Burwell trigger jobs I've seen would not (in my opinion) be Production-legal... the blob of weld he applies to the trigger bar to reduce take-up causes an externally visible change (the trigger starts further back). Will you get caught? Probably not, but I could not do it as I would know. Integrity is doing what is right, even when nobody is looking. That is not a correct interpretation of the rules. You can modify any parts inside, as long as the modification to the parts is not visible from the outside. It does not matter that the trigger is set further back. If it was not legal for Production, it would not be done that way. I'm not sure this is quite correct - I seem to recall reading a DNROI ruling that if the consequences of the modification are externally visible, it is not Production legal. I'll have to try to hunt it down and provide a link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I'm sure it is correct, as I had the conversation with Amidon after the rules were passed to make sure our services were legal for Production division. I've done a lot of M&P trigger jobs and want to make sure that anything I do is within the rules. I didn't take it personally either, as I understand the rules can be confusing, even to the people who wrote them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 I'm sure it is correct, as I had the conversation with Amidon after the rules were passed to make sure our services were legal for Production division. I've done a lot of M&P trigger jobs and want to make sure that anything I do is within the rules. I didn't take it personally either, as I understand the rules can be confusing, even to the people who wrote them. Yeah, I may be confusing this with the Vanek trigger ruling. In many ways I prefer the clarity of IPSC Production rules... NO modifications period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Murphy Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Mr. Burwell was at production nationals this year shooting an m&p that i can only assume he has done his own trigger job on, that in itself would lead me to believe that his trigger jobs are gtg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dink Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Anyone tried a Custom Shop trigger job from S&W?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhjeffs Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Look up ATEi. Doug does fantastic work on M&P's. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstagn Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 What about the Burwell mod (blob of weld as its described here) would this be legal for IDPA? Rules seems similar not externally visible mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveac1 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I may look to do this. Are you still Production? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWallace Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Can we get a picture of what the Burwell blob mod looks like? I'm curious as to where he is actually welding something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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