Off hand versus machine rest

[Pasley]

Somewhere I remember reading an opinion that if you shot a ten shot group off hand, threw out some number of the worst shots, you would have about the equivalent of a machine rest group.

Anybody agree with this? Best seven out of ten? Not really talking about a group with some gross flyers, just a decent, reasonably dispersed, group.

[Hi-Power Jack]

I doubt it (IMHO).

To prove or disprove, you'd have to try it - fire five groups offhand, throw out

as many as you feel were "too far out" and measure your group size.

Then try the machine rest.

My guess is that if you fired five ten-shot groups, your "average group",

after throwing out any number of shots, would be kind of random.

Also would depend on how good a shot you are, and the distance.

Might be true at 10 yds, but not at 25 or 50 yards.

Also, might depend on the type of sights - 10x scope? iron sights?

Massad Ayoob has long suggested that it's a good idea to drop one

or two shots in a five shot group. I've never subscribed to his theory,

either.

Just my Humble Opinion. Anyone actually try it?

[Steve RA]

I think several gun writers said best three of five would be roughly equivalent to 5 from a Ransom Rest.

[P.E. Kelley]

It was Mas Ayoob. Paraphrasing here...He said that a very accomplished shooter (leaves some of us out) from a BENCH REST (aka sandbags)

could reasonably figure the mechanical accuracy by shooting several 5 shot groups and tossing any called bad and taking the best 4

per group.

[P.E. Kelley]

Oh and "Offhand" generally refers to standing without any support.

[Steve RA]

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=405228&page=3

[GuildSF4]

I saw a comment like Pat's in a magazine article a few years ago refering to bench Vs Machine rest, might have been from Mas, I don't recall.

Concerning offhand Vs bench, Robbie told me a few years ago that his offhand groups were about 2 times the size of his Bench groups.

(edited for spelling)

Edited December 31, 2013 by GuildSF4

[Intel6]

There are probably a select few people who, with the right gun and ammo, can outshoot a Ransom Rest on a good day. But, can they do it 24 hours a day 365? If the same person shot against the rest every hour for 8 hours a day, would they always beat it? The idea is consistency, the human body has a hard time keeping up with the consistency of a machine.

Before I got mine I used to test accuracy with an optical scope mounted to the top of my revolvers. I would go out and do some serious bench resting but before long the eye strain would get to me and I would not be able to keep up my level of concentration and my groups would suffer. After getting my Ransom Rest back over 20 years ago I found I could test different guns and different loads without any fatigue and I did not have to throw out my results because I got fatigued.

Neal in AZ

[ttolliver]

I agree completely with accuracy testing offhand with a discard element. But rather than a specific number of shots to discard, I discard those shots that I already knew I was doing something wrong when the gun went off. The fact that that probably happens 1 out of 5 is pure coincidence ;~)

Seriously though, I like to shoot 5 shot groups and read the story a whole series of those groups tell. Sure they'll be a flier from half the groups on a typical day, but shooting only 5 shot groups helps with that. And the accuracy story is plain as day when I'm done.

[Hi-Power Jack]

If I'm testing accuracy of a scoped gun, from a rest, I'll fire 5-8 shots

and count them all, unless I know I screwed up a shot.

If I'm shooting iron sights (my two eyes are 138 years old, combined)

then I shoot a 15 shot group and see where the preponderance of

shots are located - easy to pick out the 3-4 "flyers" - then I measure

the other 10 -12 shots and see how large a group that is.

If I'm shooting a semi-auto, I fire the first shot into the berm so I

don't have to worry about Mas's hand cycled shot - he fires all

five and decides to eliminate the one that's furthest out - take it

out of play - shoot it into the berm.