hopalong Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 JFD, For Mags here is how you can't go wrong (also in Para mag thread somewhere) Para Mag bodies, Grams springs and followers(+1) Dawson Precision +2 pads Mag is 100% leagal, mag holds 20 and 21 if your really lucky and will reload with no special effort and feed the 1st round reliable unless you have real light spring. I have been running this set up in mine for 2 years now and have yet to have a failure to feed or anything related to mags( bobbled reload excluded) I will hear it now but even have been using same springs for 2 years. Hop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul B Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 JFD, there are a lot of opinions on mag setup for the P16. I'll tell you what has worked for me with very little tuning. Get the standard capacity Para mags and some of the more aggressive scotchbrite pads (or the equivalent). Polish the internal surfaces of the mag by pushing the pads up and down till they feel smooth. Clean them well. Check the mag lips to be sure they are not much smaller than .380 and not much bigger than .395. Para's often come from the factory a little tight in the mag lip area. If mine are too tight I use a drill rod of the appropriate dimension and spread then slightly - be very careful here as usage will eventually expand them some anyway and you do not want to bung them up. If they feed well don't even touch them except for the polishing. I use nothing but stock Para mag springs and I change them every year or so or if they start to act up. I bought a whole bunch of the springs directly from Para so I have a lot of them. Contrary to what some say you don't need super strong mag springs to make the gun work well if the gun action is smooth. I compete with 6 mags. 2 of them are standard Paras which hold 17 rounds. I usually only put 15 rounds in these and use them as "drop" mags for short courses or when i have to drop the mag on concrete, etc. The plastic pads take an amazing amount of abuse. I have 2 mags with Dawson pads and Para followers that will hold 20-21 in the mag, but are not easy to reload with 21. You do not need the internal spring holder when using the Dawson pads. I've never had them lock up at the bottom. I have 2 magw with Dawson base pads and Grams followers and these will hold 22 rounds in the mag giving you a total of 23 rounds to start some courses. If you use these a lot, replace the springs every 6 months because they will be a little tight when loaded. I've found these to be very useful for a lot of courses by allowing you to go longer before a reload and pick a more advantageous point to reload. Of couse they still won't let you shoot those 24 round courses -darn it! All of these configurations are with stock Para springs. I load between 1.160 and 1.170 and use a little bit of crimp (.418-.420) for reliable feeding. The Para barrel will shoot just about any brass, even if it has been shot in a Glock as long as you resize it with anyones sizer but Dillon. I use a Hornaday and they all fit. The Dillon sizer just won't do the job. It's really the only thing they haven't got right. Do yourself a favor and buy an extra rear sight from Para as soon as you can. I don't say this as a shot to their quality, because I do the same thing for my guns with Bomars and I've had both fail at about the same rate. If they do fail, though, you will have a replacement while you send the other one back to Para for replacement. Get the Brazos fibre optic front sight (the bigger one) as you will be impressed. I shoot an 11lb recoil spring with a lead filled guide rod. You will be fine with steel but the Para is a little muzzle light so tungsten will help. I use an aluminum shock buff, but the standard plastic ones work fine also. I found the springco and recoil masters to not give a straight up and down muzzle rise but you may find you love them. As always you mileage may vary, so I hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted January 9, 2005 Author Share Posted January 9, 2005 Thanks guys for the detailed information. Looks like I'll just get the para mag body, dawson extensions, and grams springs & followers. While the finished mags are pricey compared to Power 10s, they're still way under $100 each and 20+ rounds is just too cool. I was thinking of going with the BoMar sight. Is the para sight really bad enough that it's going to break in short order? What tends to break? The FO front sight sounds good. I take it that if I buy once fired brass, the trick is to run it through one of my standard resizing dies (Lee, RCBS, or Hornady), then load it with my SDB forever after. I may go ahead and order a Lee 6 cavity mould (401-175-TC) so I get some bullets cast/sized and ready for shooting. I have a feeling I'm going to be shooting a LOT of these bullets in the near future. I haven't quite decided if I'm going to shoot the Rainier 180 HP(assuming the para likes it) for all matches just to eliminate smoke as a possible problem, or just save the jacketed/plated bullets for "big" matches like I do now with my .45 loads. Practice will always be with lead, since I can cast my own for something like $5 a thousand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Is the para sight really bad enough that it's going to break in short order? Wait a while to replace them. I only had each of my Para's for a year, but the rear sight held on tight and kept it's zero well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Is the para sight really bad enough that it's going to break in short order? Wait a while to replace them. I only had each of my Para's for a year, but the rear sight held on tight and kept it's zero well. Mine has held up - P18 LDA - but - soon after I got it it came loose and had to have loctite and be refastened. And of course it first slid sideways during a match! 19 rounds at 4 poppers before I gave up and went to point shooting... How embarassing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul B Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 JFD, I have had one para rear sight break and 2 bomars. The para broke the sight blade itself off, but this was probably my fault as I rounded off the edges of the sight for more target visibility and probably heated it up too much when I ground it down. I've since cooled the sight as I grind it and no more problems. The bomar did the same thing, but they also break the front pin a lot and it has to be replaced. Thats why I keep a spare of both. The only brass you have to be careful with are the ones shot in a Glock which you can tell from the distinctive primer strike. I use zero 180 JHP's in matches because of the copper covered base. With VV 320 there is almost no smoke. I also practice with 180 cast because they are cheap. I buy them for about $21 per thousand. I don't want to cast because of the lead exposure so this works for me. I tried these in matches, but they smoke so bad that it really affects the shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted January 10, 2005 Author Share Posted January 10, 2005 I've been really lucky in terms of cast bullet smoke during matches. In the last 5 years I've only had one situation were the smoke was bad enough to block out the targets. That was an outlaw match were anything outside of the "C" zone is called a miss with a 10 second penalty for each. I had already fired the 6 rounds I needed, but I did want to check my hits. I've had folks comment on the smoke before, but while they were asking how could I see through all that smoke, I was thinking to myself "what smoke?" Guess I'm used to it. Normally I pack 300 rounds of jacketed ammo in the car at every match, just in case it's really humid and there's not a hint of a breeze. Any match bigger than a local match means I'm shooting Rainier bullets just to be safe. Their 230 HP also happens to be very accurate in my Kimber, so it makes for a confidence boost when the pressure ratchets up. Back to the para. Any comments on the Dawson aluminum magwell? Right now it's my top choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul B Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 I went with the S&A, but I would never say anything agains the Dawson. He built 2 of my open guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 The full S&A magwell for the Para is heavy. Go with the Dawson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopalong Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 JFD, On the Back sight.... I have broke 2 of them, both broke the pin I talked to the local Para rep and he got me one, then I sent the first back to Para and they sent new one. On the magwell..... I have Ed brown on mine so I can shoot it in IDPA also, Have friends with the Dawson and like it too. If shooting USPSA only the Dawson is most likely the way to go. Hopalong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipster Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Dawson "Ice" is the only way to go, IMHO. I have one on my P16-40 Limited and I love it, with Dawson +2 mag bases it's a hard combination to beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Oh comeon! All these suggestions and no pics? My 16.40 is with George at EGW as we speak and I'm gettin restless (It's only been a day, haha) so make with the pics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonub Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 buy the wilson rear sights from brian's store, it does not seem that it wants to break Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eye Cutter Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 here's my old/new Para P16-40 that I'm building for ipsc standard division. Changed the stock para-ord upper with an STI slide, DP front sight, Bomar rear, Bar-sto barrel. I already have the S&A magwell. I'm thinking of changing to a Dawson Retro Ice magwell (frame has been cut for the S&A magwell). Anybody have tried the DP retro ice magwell? How is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 The Ice is not suposed to fit in the box. Can anyone confirm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 I am also looking into making the move from L-10 (double stack 45). I came into this sport only three years ago shooting on and off around deer season. Giving that up and will shot matches from here out. Looking into going into limited and have read all above posting and I haven't seen any deciding factors. Are the paras worth the time and money to get match ready? For I have not seen many paras at my local matches maybe thats bad. But I have seen the other guns problems first hand. Has anyone not sponsered tried the CZ IPSC with any success? Please clear my mind. I just want to shoot lots of bullets with out the reloads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batangueno Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eye Cutter Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 batangueno: How many rounds have you fired through your P16-40? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batangueno Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 batangueno: How many rounds have you fired through your P16-40? It does look pretty beat up but i suppose it does go with the age. I bought that gun in 1997. I would say it only ate up 10,000 rounds more or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeg Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 Batangueno, Nice looking gun. Where do you shoot. I am also from Batangas. Mikeg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eye Cutter Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 batangueno and I are members of Team PBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thompson Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Anyone interested in STI mags for Para better get them now as the STI web sight says they're going to be discontinued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batangueno Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Batangueno,Nice looking gun. Where do you shoot. I am also from Batangas. Mikeg Hi Mikeg, me and Eye Cutter shoots at almost every IPSC match within Luzon....hehe Addicts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Does anyone know if it would be safe to take out some weight from the frame by removing a bit of material from the frame under the grips. The frame is much thicker here than on most other 1911's, and I'm probably about 2 ounces overweight for IDPA with my magwell. (didnt realize weight limits included the empty mag) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Does anyone know if it would be safe to take out some weight from the frame by removing a bit of material from the frame under the grips. The frame is much thicker here than on most other 1911's, and I'm probably about 2 ounces overweight for IDPA with my magwell. (didnt realize weight limits included the empty mag) I'm not sure you can remove enough metal from under there to really matter. How about enlarging those quarter-sized holes and make it like those on a singlestack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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