Sterling White Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Maybe a title change is in order because you make it sound like 3GN is now home of the "outlaw" matches! Or at least insert the word "inspired" into the title. SOF and the subsequent big matches earned the name and its pretty much a badge of honor that shouldn't be diluted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uber Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 With that said is 3GN going to make pro series shooter pot any better? As it stands if 55 shooters pay 1300.00 to be a member and they then pay 250.00 to shoot in 4 seperate matches 3GN is racking in $126,500.00 based on my math they are only paying out $90,000 and $50,000 of the payout is courtesy of Leupold Tactical Optics and NRA Sports thus leaving them with $86,500.00 from the pro series alone. It doesn't make sense to shoot the pro series unless you are consistently in the top 3 at each match... Now that I have chased points all year I have come to the conclusion to stay home for the Pro Series qualifier. I cannot justify spending thousands of dollars to reap no benefit. I do love shooting but I can shoot plenty of outlaw matches and reap a reward for decent performance rather than NOTHING! Hope someone from 3gun reads this and makes a positive change for the shooters! Sorry for the Rant. Don't sell yourself short! If you're finishing that well in year 1 you will be getting a lot better which means you could be a contender. Do you think I plan to move down the leaderboard next year? I think everyone that shoots on the Pro Series would love to see larger payouts for everyone. I would love to see every shooter get $1500 cash or more. That way everyone is being paid to be there which defines a professional sport. It costs about $1000-1500 to shoot any major 3 gun match depending on what hotels you stay at how nice of a rental car you get etc. With that said all of the $1300 in entry fees for the Pro Series are paid back in Cash at each match. Here is the payout schedule form the last Pro match. The Top 3 payouts are not out of entry fees. They come from Stag Arms, Magpul or whomever puts up the $10,000 to have their name on those big checks that Daniel, Keith and a few lucky others are always holding up. You need to finish about Top 15 or to better to earn about $1000 in cash and prizes as it stands now. I finished 15th at the last match ad got a $750 check and an awesome Seekins Precision gift certificate worth about $300 in product. I am lucky I live 1.5 hours from the range so it only cost me $500 to shoot the match. That includes, match fees, fuel, hotel for one night, food for a day, and match ammo. Now if you go to an Outlaw Match like Rocky Mountain or FNH which have the biggest prize tables you will likely get a $1200-1500 rifle for 15th place. Remember those are the best prize table out there. At some of the major matches that don't have those big sponsors like Superstition or Midwest you will be under $1000 in prize value by 15th spot. So it really isn't that far out of line with the average match. Now should it be in line with the average match or should it be above and beyond because it is the PRO SERIES. Hopefully there is more to come as each year the payouts have grown down the line. Speaking of making money shooting matches. I too try to pick the best opportunity to get my expenses back when shooting a match. This year I have shot 17 state, regional, or national level matches with 3 more to go. Here is what it cost me to do so and what the rate of return is on those matches. If you're in it to make money your going to be sadly disappointed. This does not take into account the days off of work which is well over 20 and probably closer to 30 or the help that I get from my awesome sponsors. As of now I am still $1300 in the red for the year. Glad you posted this Jesse. 3GN doesnt put out info like that anywhere, so most people think the pro series isnt worth it....Cant wait to shoot the qualifier next year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 We have not had a single 3GN regional event yet somehow these events are going to dilute the honor of other 3 gun events??? Come on Stirling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling White Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Pat, 3GN is a new chapter in the sport. Newcomers to the sport should not be misled by something as simple as what is in the title. You know this better than anyone. A little thought should go into what is typed before hitting the post button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 I understand Stirling, however the title of this thread was not created by 3GN nor any agent thereof. As to newcomers to the sport, some are coming to the game via the TV show and that's the idea...growing the sport. All the established 3 gun matches of note are still going strong. 3GN is just bringing more to the feast. I will be enjoying some of everything on the 3-gun plate! We are fortunate to have to choose between events! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csole Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 (edited) Amen Jesse...if you want to see what the 3GN regional series will offer Google Tarheel 3 Gun... your computer will blow up. We run 18 -20 matches per year with an average of 90-100 shooters. Most of the TH3GN monthly matches have a wait list. Folks, 2014 will be an epic year for 3 gun..please remember 3 gun nation is about growing the game of 3 gun. Stay tune for many more sponsor updates and match updates. If you have ANY questions about the 3 Gun Nation Regional Series please call 919-201-7990 or email me Charles@3gunnation.com... My only question is can you send me the registration link a day early? I can't do that but looks like it might open on the last Thursday of this month.....firm reg date coming soon. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Edited November 9, 2013 by csole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csole Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 (edited) A valid question for a lot of people would be if they need to shoot one or three matches in order to qualify for semi pro points. One match only....regrading points. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Edited November 9, 2013 by csole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gose Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 (edited) Glad you posted this Jesse. 3GN doesnt put out info like that anywhere, so most people think the pro series isnt worth it....Cant wait to shoot the qualifier next year! I thought it used to be on their web site, but might have been somewhere else? Its almost impossible to find anything on there... Either way, if it's worth it or not depends on why youre doing it. If you want to compete against some of the best 3gunners, increase your chances of getting sponsors, maybe even make it to the screen, then 3GN is def for you. If you do it to make money or break even, not so much, unless youre consistently in the top 10-15. Edited November 9, 2013 by gose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaZeNuTZ33 Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 A valid question for a lot of people would be if they need to shoot one or three matches in order to qualify for semi pro points.One match only....because it's four events.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD If only requiring one match's score to qualify for a shot at the Pro Series, I think attendance should be pretty good. If there would have been a requirement to shoot 3 of the 4 matches, with as far as they are apread out, it may have been more difficult to get a larger group of willing participants compared to the previous system with substantially more matches to gather points from. Thank you for the answer to that question! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gose Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 A valid question for a lot of people would be if they need to shoot one or three matches in order to qualify for semi pro points.One match only....because it's four events.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD If only requiring one match's score to qualify for a shot at the Pro Series, I think attendance should be pretty good. If there would have been a requirement to shoot 3 of the 4 matches, with as far as they are apread out, it may have been more difficult to get a larger group of willing participants compared to the previous system with substantially more matches to gather points from. Thank you for the answer to that question! Now you just need to figure out which match Daniel isnt going to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaZeNuTZ33 Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Hahahahahahahahahahaha I think some people were planning on Horner and Jordan skipping the International match and picking up big points there. Didn't look like it worked out that way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gose Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 (edited) Hahahahahahahahahahaha I think some people were planning on Horner and Jordan skipping the International match and picking up big points there. Didn't look like it worked out that way! The match that clashes with the Crimson Trace match might be the best bet maybe? I doubt too many of the 3-gunners are going to the IPSC Worldshoot in October.. Edited November 9, 2013 by gose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 (edited) Every thing donated?? Wow, just wow! Good thing Chad is helping you cause you don,t have a clue!! Well over half of all match fees for any major are turned around to buy more product for the prize table. Part of the "sponsorship" comes from manufacturers cutting matches good deals if they buy a bunch of stuff. I dare you to run a great prize table on donations alone! Your arrogance out weights common sense...but you will find out, that is for sure and for certain. So come on Mr. T put on a $100,000.00 plus prize table on donations alone like you think everyone does...let,s see it!! Edited November 9, 2013 by kurtm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Every thing donated?? Wow, just wow! Good thing Chad is helping you cause you don,t have a clue!! Well over half of all match fees for any major are turned around to buy more product for the prize table. Part of the "sponsorship" comes from manufacturers cutting matches good deals if they buy a bunch of stuff. I dare you to run a great prize table on donations alone! Your arrogance out weights common since...but you will find out, that is for sure and for certain Kurt, hate to argue with you on this one. But when you write in absolutes you're bound to be at least a little wrong. I've run several matches without buying any significant number of prizes. It can be done, or at least it used to be possible. It just requires a crap load of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Yes Chuck it can be done and while you were typing, my cell phone quit! Look at my edited post! I doubt you have pulled together a $100,000.00 plus prize table (a la RM3G, SMM3G...etc.) from donations alone. I sure have seen some respectable work, but not on that level!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 If only requiring one match's score to qualify for a shot at the Pro Series, I think attendance should be pretty good. If there would have been a requirement to shoot 3 of the 4 matches, with as far as they are apread out, it may have been more difficult to get a larger group of willing participants compared to the previous system with substantially more matches to gather points from. Thank you for the answer to that question! If a shooter isn't willing to make the sacrifices in both time and money to shoot more than one Regional, thinking they want to qualify for the Pro Series, how are they going to make the commitment to shoot at least 3 matches the next year in Pro? I guess it would be easier to work out if you live close to Tulsa for the Pro matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaZeNuTZ33 Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 (edited) If only requiring one match's score to qualify for a shot at the Pro Series, I think attendance should be pretty good. If there would have been a requirement to shoot 3 of the 4 matches, with as far as they are apread out, it may have been more difficult to get a larger group of willing participants compared to the previous system with substantially more matches to gather points from. Thank you for the answer to that question! If a shooter isn't willing to make the sacrifices in both time and money to shoot more than one Regional, thinking they want to qualify for the Pro Series, how are they going to make the commitment to shoot at least 3 matches the next year in Pro? I guess it would be easier to work out if you live close to Tulsa for the Pro matches.You are 100% correct that if someone CANT commit the time that would be required to shoot multiple regional matches spread out across the country,, the Pro Series isn't a necessarily the best place for him. My point is, you want participation, of course with ALL of the pro matches now in Tulsa (one place).....Those people who are 50-75% committed, especially those of us within an afternoons drive time, would take that extra step towards 100% if heading towards the pro series qualifier! Someone like me, in Kansas City, could leave after work Friday to shoot Pro Series matches and be back to tuck my kids into bed Sunday evening.With under 120 people who shot Semi-Pro this year, and me taking 36th by paying $50 to 3 GunNation and shooting matches I was going to shoot anyways.....do you think there are 200+ gung-HO people ready to not shoot the Pro-Am, Fallen Brethren, or other favorite match for a minute chance to score well enough for the qualifier? I do realize that more than those out for Semi-Pro points would be shooting there....the point is the allowance of 200ish at each match, for matches spread out that far. I'd like to see them ALL sell out if possible. Edited November 9, 2013 by EaZeNuTZ33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Yes Chuck it can be done and while you were typing, my cell phone quit! Look at my edited post! I doubt you have pulled together a $100,000.00 plus prize table (a la RM3G, SMM3G...etc.) from donations alone. I sure have seen some respectable work, but not on that level!! 125k with 6k paid. Just used the leftover money from the registrations over our break even point. But that was back in 2008 if memory serves. And it required an almost full time level of calling and talking to sponsors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBets Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 So as I understand a person can go to one regional match, finish with lets say a 85% and if that one score puts him or her at 20th semi pro they are qualified to shoot the pro series qualification match Bets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted November 9, 2013 Author Share Posted November 9, 2013 (edited) Maybe a title change is in order because you make it sound like 3GN is now home of the "outlaw" matches! Or at least insert the word "inspired" into the title. SOF and the subsequent big matches earned the name and its pretty much a badge of honor that shouldn't be diluted.Badge of honor? Any Tom, Dick, or Harry can haul a few old cars out into a field and hang some break rotors off a post then charge $300 for us to come shoot and call themselves an Outlaw 3 Gun Championship. More like a badge of get ready for anything!Maybe you should apply for a trademark on the name "Outlaw" for those matches so nobody els can use it. I'd bet $ that the money grubbing capitalist pigs that run the giant corporation that is 3 Gun Nation and their overpaid employees will run a great match, have a big prize table and pretty much become the standard for 3 Gun. Edited November 9, 2013 by Jesse Tischauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTKlaus Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 (edited) "With the advent of the 3GN Regional Series, all future 3GN Divisional races will now take place only at the 3GN Regional Championship matches." "The equipment Division races,..., are being discontinued at this time." Which is it? Welcome to 3 Gun Nation Version 5! Every year there is a format change of some sort... I loved shooting HMO this year, was planning on it next year along with HM buying brand new set ups... dont see it as a waste as the "traditional" outlaw matches will always be there... but ****, it was nice to know that there was something else beyond just the outlaw matches in the terms as a series/race. Edited November 9, 2013 by KTKlaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted November 9, 2013 Author Share Posted November 9, 2013 Amen Jesse...if you want to see what the 3GN regional series will offer Google Tarheel 3 Gun... your computer will blow up. We run 18 -20 matches per year with an average of 90-100 shooters. Most of the TH3GN monthly matches have a wait list. Folks, 2014 will be an epic year for 3 gun..please remember 3 gun nation is about growing the game of 3 gun. Stay tune for many more sponsor updates and match updates. If you have ANY questions about the 3 Gun Nation Regional Series please call 919-201-7990 or email me Charles@3gunnation.com...My only question is can you send me the registration link a day early?I can't do that but looks like it might open on the last Thursday of this month.....firm reg date coming soon. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Will we be able to register for all four matches at the same time? I was hoping to know earlier rather than later if I got into each of these. That way if I'm signed up now I know what I can afford and/or have time to shoot done of the "real" outlaw matches too. A valid question for a lot of people would be if they need to shoot one or three matches in order to qualify for semi pro points.One match only....regrading points.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Damn I was hoping it was going to get harder to make the semi pro qualifier match! These young guys are too damn good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted November 9, 2013 Author Share Posted November 9, 2013 Every thing donated?? Wow, just wow! Good thing Chad is helping you cause you don,t have a clue!! Well over half of all match fees for any major are turned around to buy more product for the prize table. Part of the "sponsorship" comes from manufacturers cutting matches good deals if they buy a bunch of stuff. I dare you to run a great prize table on donations alone! Your arrogance out weights common sense...but you will find out, that is for sure and for certain. So come on Mr. T put on a $100,000.00 plus prize table on donations alone like you think everyone does...let,s see it!! Why would anyone pay to Put prizes on the prize table? Is the match not good enough to attract shooters for the shooting alone? I thought everyone on this board shot for fun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csole Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Amen Jesse...if you want to see what the 3GN regional series will offer Google Tarheel 3 Gun... your computer will blow up. We run 18 -20 matches per year with an average of 90-100 shooters. Most of the TH3GN monthly matches have a wait list. Folks, 2014 will be an epic year for 3 gun..please remember 3 gun nation is about growing the game of 3 gun. Stay tune for many more sponsor updates and match updates. If you have ANY questions about the 3 Gun Nation Regional Series please call 919-201-7990 or email me Charles@3gunnation.com...My only question is can you send me the registration link a day early?I can't do that but looks like it might open on the last Thursday of this month.....firm reg date coming soon. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Will we be able to register for all four matches at the same time? I was hoping to know earlier rather than later if I got into each of these. That way if I'm signed up now I know what I can afford and/or have time to shoot done of the "real" outlaw matches too. A valid question for a lot of people would be if they need to shoot one or three matches in order to qualify for semi pro points.One match only....regrading points.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Damn I was hoping it was going to get harder to make the semi pro qualifier match! These young guys are too damn good! The plan is to open all four at one time. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cold Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 (edited) Any Tom, Dick, or Harry can haul a few old cars out into a field and hang some break rotors off a post then charge $300 for us to come shoot and call themselves an Outlaw 3 Gun Championship. Edited November 9, 2013 by cold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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