Please explain 3gun nation

[Tim/GA]

The newly revised 3GN Regional/club series rules and divisions are out. Changes to the heavy metal division and changes to the scoring were the things that stuck out first to me.

http://3gunnation.com/regionals/rules_awards

[Lead-Head]

I noticed a few differences than what I am used to, not necessarily bad, just different: reholstering a hot pistol is allowed, >9 in SG at start is a 10 sec pen. not a bump to open, Dropping n unloaded gun is not a DQ, an AD during unloading your gun is not a DQ.

[ac4wordplay]

... Dropping n unloaded gun is not a DQ, an AD during unloading your gun is not a DQ.

During the course of fire?! Not a DQ?!

Wow.

[Lead-Head]

... Dropping n unloaded gun is not a DQ, an AD during unloading your gun is not a DQ.

During the course of fire?! Not a DQ?!

Wow.

No, before or after course of Fire is over. Actually, dropping an unloaded weapon at Br3g is Within the rules there as well, during the course if firer there.

[ac4wordplay]

... Dropping n unloaded gun is not a DQ, an AD during unloading your gun is not a DQ.

During the course of fire?! Not a DQ?!

Wow.

No, before or after course of Fire is over. Actually, dropping an unloaded weapon at Br3g is Within the rules there as well, during the course if firer there.

What?! After the course of fire people AD while unloading weapons and it's not a DQ?!

Why do people have loaded weapons outside the CoF?! Why are they being handled/unloaded outside the CoF?

[Jesse Tischauser]

I instantly noticed they decreased penalty values for FTN and such. That's gonna speed things up which I don't mind at all.

[Lead-Head]

Obviously my descriptions have fallen short. Or someone is just messing with me. Best just read rules for yourselves.

Edited December 8, 2013 by Lead-Head

[Tim/GA]

I like the new penalties as well, 2.5 seconds for 1 hit outside the center instead of 5 AND higher miss penalties for rifle steel beyond 40 yards both look good. Speed up the engagements but don't skip the rifle steel

Unless I missed it,the term accident discharge (AD) is not in the rules- and should not be. Negligent Discharge is used though and the only thing I could find that was not a DQ was a detonation- that is the norm. Also the norm that a dropped, unloaded gun outside of the course of fire AND retrieved by a RO is not a DQ.

A couple of other notable things. There are NO stage DQs, only match DQs. Hot reholstering is ok, just like in the past, USPSA, etc. But, if you go prone with a pistol with a round in the chamber it is a DQ.

Not sure if this was a rule before, you can only have 1 gun in hand or DQ.

All of that said, I agree- everyone should read the rules for themselves! All of them.

[gose]

I noticed a few differences than what I am used to, not necessarily bad, just different: reholstering a hot pistol is allowed, >9 in SG at start is a 10 sec pen. not a bump to open, Dropping n unloaded gun is not a DQ, an AD during unloading your gun is not a DQ.

The funny part is that there's no exception for Open either, so I guess Open shooters have to start with 9 in their guns too

Nice if you have a Saiga or Akdal, sucks if you have an XRail

A foot fault procedural seems to only be given if you hit targets while faulting? If you shoot at a target both before and after faulting, the RO better pay attention to which position the hits were made from.

Looks like they're also one of few matches that count shoot-throughs. They only mention hits on NoShoots after passing through another target in the rules, but I assume the reverse is true too?

Dropping an unloaded firearm seems to be a DQ if its after make ready.

5.4 A competitor shall be disqualified for dropping or losing control of a firearm, whether loaded or unloaded at any time after the “Make Ready” command and before the “Range is Clear” command. This includes any firearm, loaded or unloaded, that falls after being grounded during the course of fire.

Edited December 8, 2013 by gose

[outerlimits]

My guess is the rules are made for TV. They want people running around at break neck speed and even more on the edge.

[RGinIdaho]

Looking at the 3g Nation website; there are still 3 different sets of rules. One set for the pro series, one for the regional series and one for the club series. All different, some with different scoring... Why not just one set?

And while we are on the "explain" 3gun nation topic: Why don't any of the "pros" that I have looked up in the members section have any classifications listed? I seem to be able to look up everyone else. Knowing where the "pros" actually place would give the rest of us a benchmark for measurement and improvement.

I think the new shooter exposure 3gn Nation might garner is a great tool.

I also like the idea of one governing body and one set of rules if I'm traveling to matches. I'm just not seeing it.

[Tim/GA]

Actually, my understanding after talking with Charles and Tennille, in getting our club set up, the newly revised "Regional" rules are for regional and club matches. They have not switched them on the website yet though. The Pro rules are completely different.

No, the Regional rules are not made for TV.

Open shotgun does not specify a max number in the gun at the start, the other divisions specify 9 in the gun.

Foot faults- just like any match I have shot, pull the trigger while touching outside the fault line or an object- 1 procedural per shot. That 2nd part about one penalty per hit does not make sense since the RO cannot/should not know if the shooter is hitting anything. I wonder if they meant it to be like USPSA where the number of procedural cannot exceed the number of possible hits? Ie. the array has 3 targets for a total of 6 possible hits- shooter shoots 8 shots at those targets while faulting but only gets 6 procedurals. Something to ask about.

Same with the no shoots, I had not noticed it until pointed out above. I know that in most 3gun matches no shoot steel that falls along with shoot steel is still counted but had not seen it on shoot throughs on paper.

[gose]

Open shotgun does not specify a max number in the gun at the start, the other divisions specify 9 in the gun.

4.3 Additional 10 Seconds: Before the Start Signal, no more than 9 rounds total loaded in the shotgun and the competitor cannot have any ammunition in their hands.

How does the rule, as written, allow Open shooters to start with more than 9 rounds in the gun without a penalty?

[Jesse Tischauser]

Open shotgun does not specify a max number in the gun at the start, the other divisions specify 9 in the gun.

4.3 Additional 10 Seconds: Before the Start Signal, no more than 9 rounds total loaded in the shotgun and the competitor cannot have any ammunition in their hands.

How does the rule, as written, allow Open shooters to start with more than 9 rounds in the gun without a penalty?

It doesn't say which division it pertains to. Assuming it means all divisions is the same as assuming it means all divisions but open like every other rule set. There is no way they r limiting open. It does need clarification though. Edited December 8, 2013 by Jesse Tischauser

[JWB885]

As someone new to the sport I have been debating gearing up and shooting Heavy Op and noticed that a pump shot gun is not required . Am I reading this correctly? Just re-reading and the pistol can be between 9mm and 45. If I'm reading correctly his makes be very happy. Wanted to shoot my Scar 17 with my glock 35 and 1301 I have on the way. This saves me from buying a 45 and a pump shotgun.........I smell early Xmas scope happy happy happy

Edited December 9, 2013 by JWB885

[Jesse Tischauser]

As someone new to the sport I have been debating gearing up and shooting Heavy Op and noticed that a pump shot gun is not required . Am I reading this correctly? Just re-reading and the pistol can be between 9mm and 45. If I'm reading correctly his makes be very happy. Wanted to shoot my Scar 17 with my glock 35 and 1301 I have on the way. This saves me from buying a 45 and a pump shotgun.........I smell early Xmas scope happy happy happy

You got it right. Heavy Optics is basically Tac Optics with a .308 rifle.

[JWB885]

Jesse, as I stated above, I have all the Glock 40's, want to shoot an auto shotgun and would like to use a Scar. So the question is would you get the scar 17 or 16 ( I have another .223 that I can beef up if needed) as a newcomer. Always enjoy reading your input.....thank you for taking the time to help us new comers

[Jesse Tischauser]

Jesse, as I stated above, I have all the Glock 40's, want to shoot an auto shotgun and would like to use a Scar. So the question is would you get the scar 17 or 16 ( I have another .223 that I can beef up if needed) as a newcomer. Always enjoy reading your input.....thank you for taking the time to help us new comers

Personally I wouldn't choose a SCAR or any piston gun for 3 Gun. The added reciprocating mass of a piston gun just makes the sights move more. You could buy a Stag 3G, a Burris Tac30, brownells 3 gun bag, case of ammo and all the mags you need and still be cheaper than a scar too.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Jesse Tischauser

[AustinT]

Here's what my typing-challenged friend really meant:

Personally I wouldn't choose a SCAR or any piston gun for 3 Gun. The added reciprocating mass of a piston gun just makes the sights move more. You could buy a Stag 3G, a Burris Tac30, brownells 3 gun bag, case of ammo and all the mags you need and still be cheaper than a scar too.

[SteveT-NV]

3.3 Penalties will apply as follows:

One (1) hit on the target not in the Center (8 circle)=2.5 Second Penalty

No hits on paper but target was engaged=5 Second Penalty

Target (of any sort) was not engaged=5 Second Penalty

Missed steel or clay (static or reactive)=5 Second Penalty

Missed steel beyond 40 yards (static or reactive)=10 Second Penalty

No Shoot Penalty=5 Second Penalty per hit.

Does this mean a FTE is the same penalty as a miss?

[mr50mag]

3.3 Penalties will apply as follows:One (1) hit on the target not in the Center (8 circle)=2.5 Second PenaltyNo hits on paper but target was engaged=5 Second PenaltyTarget (of any sort) was not engaged=5 Second PenaltyMissed steel or clay (static or reactive)=5 Second PenaltyMissed steel beyond 40 yards (static or reactive)=10 Second PenaltyNo Shoot Penalty=5 Second Penalty per hit.

Does this mean a FTE is the same penalty as a miss?

The FTE penalty is an additional +5 seconds on top of the +5 for no hits on paper.

[Jesse Tischauser]

Here's what my typing-challenged friend really meant:

Personally I wouldn't choose a SCAR or any piston gun for 3 Gun. The added reciprocating mass of a piston gun just makes the sights move more. You could buy a Stag 3G, a Burris Tac30, brownells 3 gun bag, case of ammo and all the mags you need and still be cheaper than a scar too.

Thanks Austin!

[Jesse Tischauser]

3.3 Penalties will apply as follows:One (1) hit on the target not in the Center (8 circle)=2.5 Second PenaltyNo hits on paper but target was engaged=5 Second PenaltyTarget (of any sort) was not engaged=5 Second PenaltyMissed steel or clay (static or reactive)=5 Second PenaltyMissed steel beyond 40 yards (static or reactive)=10 Second PenaltyNo Shoot Penalty=5 Second Penalty per hit.

Does this mean a FTE is the same penalty as a miss?

The FTE penalty is an additional +5 seconds on top of the +5 for no hits on paper.

Sounds like instead of the typical

FTN -5

Unhit-10

FTE -15

It's FTN -2.5, unhit-5, FTE-10

[mr50mag]

3.3 Penalties will apply as follows:One (1) hit on the target not in the Center (8 circle)=2.5 Second PenaltyNo hits on paper but target was engaged=5 Second PenaltyTarget (of any sort) was not engaged=5 Second PenaltyMissed steel or clay (static or reactive)=5 Second PenaltyMissed steel beyond 40 yards (static or reactive)=10 Second PenaltyNo Shoot Penalty=5 Second Penalty per hit.

Does this mean a FTE is the same penalty as a miss?

The FTE penalty is an additional +5 seconds on top of the +5 for no hits on paper.

Sounds like instead of the typical

FTN -5

Unhit-10

FTE -15

It's FTN -2.5, unhit-5, FTE-10

You're correct. +2.5, +5 & +10 seconds respectively.

[mr50mag]

3.3 Penalties will apply as follows:One (1) hit on the target not in the Center (8 circle)=2.5 Second PenaltyNo hits on paper but target was engaged=5 Second PenaltyTarget (of any sort) was not engaged=5 Second PenaltyMissed steel or clay (static or reactive)=5 Second PenaltyMissed steel beyond 40 yards (static or reactive)=10 Second PenaltyNo Shoot Penalty=5 Second Penalty per hit.

Does this mean a FTE is the same penalty as a miss?

The FTE penalty is an additional +5 seconds on top of the +5 for no hits on paper.

Sounds like instead of the typical

FTN -5

Unhit-10

FTE -15

It's FTN -2.5, unhit-5, FTE-10

You're correct. +2.5, +5 & +10 seconds respectively.