Short stuff for Multi gun.

[barrysuperhawk]

Ok, forgive me for the only marginally serious post, but here goes. While I was down with my broken ankle and still taking painers, I had a GOB of Tramadol induced semi-lucid dreams. http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33372

Most of them were so bizarre as to defy rational description, but one that stuck with me and *is* germane to the discussion here is the use of both a bullpup rifle and bullpup shotgun in heavy metal. Now that I am not drug-addled, I realize this might not be as good of an idea as it was when I was wired, but it does have a certain appeal. In my imagination I also was running an officer's model slide on a full size frame, so maybe I was compensating for something...

The one thing that really lends appeal to this, though, is the size as it relates to transportation to and from the match. I LOVE to ride my motorcycle to matches, and to pistol matches this is easy, but I haven't really come up a practical way to carry 2 long guns on a bike without looking like I am carrying 2 long guns. Being able to fit both guns into a case roughly the size of a takedown shotgun case REALLY appeals to me. Long cases strapped to the bike suck, and a trailer isn't much fun either.

The biggest problem I see to start with is that Bullpup rifle triggers seem to mostly suck and even the best ones aren't even the equal of a stock GI trigger on a M1A or AR10. That and since you pretty much have your choice of a Kel-Tec RFB or a M1A in a Juggernaut stock kit, the choices are not great. Add to that the crappy sight radius and having to get used to the ergonomics, and, well, this may not be my best idea... I also wouldn't want to run a bad trigger and a short sight radius out to 4-500m either. I am sure many on here could make hits, but I am not that good. Maybe something like a Leupold with a DCD might work where allowed, but I would thing ~200m might be a practical limit, which is, club matches.

The Shotgun outlook is only slightly better, having both the KSG and the UTS to choose from, and both with their faults. Obviously on either SG one would have to start downloaded, and from what I have seen in internrt videos, neither one is particularly easy to load, although, in my drug induced stupor, I imagined removing the doors off the UTS and using a really well coordinated version of the load-2 or load-4 technique to stuff shells. Never actually having loaded or fired either, I have no idea if that could even work at all. The other problem is I don't think either gun comes ready for chokes.

So, with those caviats, it may sound like I have thoroughly talked myself out of this idea, but I just can't kick it completely to the curb. I think the rifle deficits could be more easily solved than the Sg's, but I don't know.

My question to you [collectively] is if you manage to get past how bad this idea is, and decided to make this work, how would *you* go about shooting a match with Bullpup long guns? Have I missed any options?

[Therealkoop]

A bullpup might not be bad depending on the balance and the ability to accept some high cap mags. Reloads are slow but I personally am not reloading rifle very often.

Shotgun for me is a no. The UTS-15 is apparently a POS from every person Ive seen review it or talk about it (if I'm wrong correct me, might have missed something), and both the UTS and the KSG are ridiculous to load.

[ericm]

He Man, Short & Stout....

Go to bullpupforums.com to see stuff that is out there....

At the local AR vs. AK match this year, the second my run started, a microburst of wind hit. I ran the stage on the clock, running to two stations and readjusting the blown-over carpet for shooting with my weak hand while holding the rifle to my shoulder with my strong hand only, shouting all the while "see how manueverable it is!!...".

Oh yeah......it was a Tavor, and no painkillers were involved.

Glock 30 for pistol, RFB for rifle, maybe some 870 or Mossberg bullpup???

ericm

[mpom]

_{Push out 2 pins and an AR15 is now 2 shorter pieces, each no longer than a bullpup.}

_{Same for a 22" barreled semi auto. A little more work for the SG, just need to show up 10 minutes earlier for the match.}

_{Would still be a lot of stuff, including ammo, muffs, etc, to bring on a bike. Neat if you can do it.}

_Mark

[DDustin]

You could take a look at the Larue Covert carry case. I got one in blue and one in red. It's just big enough to fit my broken down AR or my folded ACR. The colors keep it from looking gun related and the size is less than half of a standard rifle case. In fact when I store them, the 2 covert cases go end to end and the standard rifle bag goes on top with the ends hanging over. Probably about the size of a skinny trumpet case.

Edited December 23, 2013 by DDustin

[DDustin]

Also I know I push the ACR a lot but if you're looking at bullpups so you can transport them on your bike. The ACR might be a better solution. The stock folds, the barrel comes off in a couple seconds if you need shorter and the ergomics are an improvement to the AR. Plus you can still swap out with standard AR triggers and barrels which is one of the issues with bullpups.

Either way I'd look into that Larue case, I love mine and use it anytime I have no room and need to be inconspicuous like family trips to hotels.

Here's the inside of the case

[Steve RA]

Aug isn't bad, trigger can be made much better than stock. I used one in the first USPSA National 3 gun and it worked OK, don't remember any real long shots In that match, but, it's been quite awhile.

[Langenator]

I know there are bullpup kits for the AK. Slap one of those on a .223 AK and put a rail for an optic on top. Not sure if you could make one of those kits compatible with a STANAG/AR mag adapter.

Or you could find a Bushmaster M17S. Or, if you're .308 minded, there's the KelTec RFB.

Less sure on the shotgun. Why not just break a regular shottie down?

[EricS]

On a multigun match a month or so one of the guys was running a Tavor with irons. He managed to ring the 225, 245 and 265 steel with it and impressed the heck out of me. I've heard there's a better trigger out there for it....

As for shotgun just get a coach gun. Talk about manly!

[DDustin]

There was one at a match earlier this month. I believe Geissele is coming out with a new trigger. I thought there was one other company but I cant remember who it was. The couple I've seen are really cool but do seem to be a good bit slower in matches than standard rifles. With the ACR or even the SCAR you get a folding stock and removable barrel. Mine can fit in a back pack and it's very competitive.

[alma]

What about this

http://www.hdforums.com/forum/attachments/dyna-glide-models/195191d1310054697-rifle-scabbard-captain-america-motorcycle-stuntman-2.jpg

Or this

http://www.tigersweat.com/movies/arizona/ariz07.jpg

?