Accuracy vs Speed

[Dalmas]

I look at those targets and think....free Alphas :)

I wonder how many "mikes" has been caused by people thinking some points are for free

[Jake Di Vita]

He said "free Alphas" not gimme Alphas. When you classify something as a gimme, that is when you mike.

[Flexmoney]

I look at those targets and think....free Alphas  :)

I wonder how many "mikes" has been caused by people thinking some points are for free

Like Jake said, you read me wrong (or, more likely, I didn't post clearly).

The targets in the picture might not be the best example. What I meant was that "close/easy" targets...those are targets I want to make sure I get Alpha hits on...as it isn't hard to do.

Many will look a t a close/easy target and think "speed".

[spook]

I look at those targets and think....free Alphas  :)

I wonder how many "mikes" has been caused by people thinking some points are for free

Like Jake said, you read me wrong (or, more likely, I didn't post clearly).

The targets in the picture might not be the best example. What I meant was that "close/easy" targets...those are targets I want to make sure I get Alpha hits on...as it isn't hard to do.

Many will look a t a close/easy target and think "speed".

Yeah, that's clear. Sure, at 3 meters it's easier to get Alphas on those targets. Unfortunately, a lot of those targets were at quite large distances.

But, no matter what the distance is, the fact remains that an A-zone like that is less than 3" wide, and right at the edge of a target. Minor shooters in anything but Production will have to take significant risks or accept a couple of charlies when going through courses like that at a competitive speed. It's just less risky to blaze at the A/C line with Major on those targets. The target then changes to twice the width. And you know the scoring method. With every double Charlie target I get, Mats will have to score one A and one C.

I'd rather have them cut up targets horizontally, or just have then expose the A/C zone. hehe. Ah, well, its all part of the test, right?

And, Mats, I DO think you will benefit from all of this. Once you get your Major gun, you will know how to punch holes in the A-zone. Something a lot of shooters never get

[Dalmas]

I look at those targets and think....free Alphas  :)

I wonder how many "mikes" has been caused by people thinking some points are for free

Like Jake said, you read me wrong (or, more likely, I didn't post clearly).

The targets in the picture might not be the best example. What I meant was that "close/easy" targets...those are targets I want to make sure I get Alpha hits on...as it isn't hard to do.

Many will look a t a close/easy target and think "speed".

Ahh but of course In that case I agree with you, a C at a point blanc target is the same as a D on any other target.. my reasoning...

Björn - Yes I'm sure I'll benefit from Major - but it's not the entire story I still have to stay behind my sights

I don't mind partial targets, I train with small targets to make any target in a match feel big.. we have to have separation of the ranks and partials do their part.

[Harmon]

just looking at numbers here...

if a shooter were to only shoot Ds in a match, shooting production they would have to shoot the stage 5X faster than the guy who shoots only As.

i dont think any of us can shoot 5X faster than david sevigny.

[tightloop]

When you say you can't that is setting yourself up for failure...

[zhunter]

When you say you can't that is setting yourself up for failure...

Tightloop just hit the Proberbial NAIL on the head!

"Can't" and "Trying" are words that are preparing your mental psyche for failure!

[mcoliver]

Gawd help me! I can't shoot slow. I'm trying but I just can't.

[zhunter]

Gawd help me! I can't shoot slow. I'm trying but I just can't.

[andrewcolglazier]

I have a question:

In the discussion about accuracy being of vital importance in Production (as opposed to any other division), minor/major is brought up.

Since all shooters are scored minor in Production, unlike other divisions, why is there such emphasis on accuracy?

When shooting minor in, say, Limited 10, one would have to be more accurate than the competition shooting major. But if all shooters are shooting minor, with no advantage because of caliber, why isn't speed even MORE important than in the other divisions?

Certainly accuracy is important. But it would seem to me that hit factor becomes more of a factor.

But, OTOH, maybe I don't understand the hit factor concept. I'm new to USPSA, after all.

Andy C.

shmitz,

So in your opinion, shooting 40% of the points available on a target is ok? (Assuming you are shooting major, it is much worse in minor).

I consider a D a no penalty mike at best. Not ever an acceptable shot.

Trust me, I know, if you knew me a year or two ago, I had very little focus on points and just blazed...and I was absolutely stumped about why I couldn't get out of B class.

(General challenge)

Do this. Out of the next 2 majors you shoot. Shoot one with speed as the focus. Shoot the other with speed and accuracy as the focus. I guarantee the 2nd version will win every time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Jake Di Vita]

Look at some major match results.....if you look at a lot of the stages in Production you'll notice Sevigny and other top shooters drop VERY few points on stages. Since every C in minor dropped is 2 points in Production....every extra C you shoot you just need to be that much faster to have the same HF.

If you don't shoot 90 - 95% (or higher) of the stage points in a big match you simply can't win it against people like Dave.

[andrewcolglazier]

Errrr... well, not to sound flip, but when shooting production, how many DO win against people like Dave?

How many people are there like Dave?

I agree that accuracy is important.... but I want to get through the stage, too.

I've only shot one major match. By my calculations, I shot right about 80%, which got me 2nd overall in Production. I didn't beat any Daves in that competition.

Realistically, to shoot 90% or better, I'd have to slow waaaaaay down.

Wouldn't I?

Andy C.

Look at some major match results.....if you look at a lot of the stages in Production you'll notice Sevigny and other top shooters drop VERY few points on stages. Since every C in minor dropped is 2 points in Production....every extra C you shoot you just need to be that much faster to have the same HF.

If you don't shoot 90 - 95% (or higher) of the stage points in a big match you simply can't win it against people like Dave.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Jake Di Vita]

Your right....and I consider Dave to be totally untouchable right now in Production....I was just using him to illustrate my point.

To shoot 90% or better you should NEVER have to slow down.....you just need to see faster.

[andrewcolglazier]

That's something I need to work on. I don't want to get caught up in the slippery slope of "USPSA is all about shooting FAST".

I switched over from IDPA, and that perception is easy to fall prey to in that game, also.

Thanks!

Andy C.

Your right....and I consider Dave to be totally untouchable right now in Production....I was just using him to illustrate my point.

To shoot 90% or better you should NEVER have to slow down.....you just need to see faster.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[SRT Driver]

90-95% is ALWAYS the desired outcome but maybe if you look at what a point is worth on a 5 factor or a 10 factor stage, the emphasis, in Production, is always points. You lose twice as many for each C hit. You can get away with a charlie or two when shooting major.

On a 10 factor stage (120 points), a point is worth .1. In production, a C is worth .2 tenths. So that is the difference between a .15 split and a .35 split on one shot. So the shooter that get a C in .15 and the one that gets the A in .35 come out the same, all other things equal.

The one that can hit the .15 and faster Alphas all day long is the one to watch and Dave S is it!!!

I think the original question was for a C class shooter. Until you learn to see faster and call your shots, get the points. They are usually worth the couple tenths.

I'm sure everyone agrees that speed comes at a price.

[mcoliver]

On a 10 factor stage (120 points), a point is worth .1. In production, a C is worth .2 tenths. So that is the difference between a .15 split and a .35 split on one shot.  So the shooter that get a C in .15 and the one that gets the A in .35 come out the same, all other things equal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Also, if somebody keeps nailing those A's just shooting .25 splits, he can pull away from you just as fast (even if you're the one who gets cheered for your "blazing" .17-split-performance on every stage.)

[SRT Driver]

The splits add up over the course of a match but the points do too. The shooter that can nail the .15's and get Alphas wins but consistency can get you farther in the long run if you can't perform to that level.

Before you know it, you may only place 5th on every stage but when the scores are posted, you might be on top.

The guy that smokes a stage might look fast but chances are that the crash and burn comes more often. And it's hard to see the hits from the stands.