Dillon 550 - problem with ammo not case gauging

[blueorb]

Need some help/suggestions please.

I have a Dillon 550 with Dillon dies. For the last couple of months I have had a very aggravating problem with a large number of my reloads not case gauging. By 'large number' I mean 20 out of every 100. I have checked and double checked my set up but can't figure out why I am having this problem. I ended up buying a Lee U die hoping that would resolve my problem. No luck. I loaded 100 rounds 2 nights ago and I had 21 rounds that didn't case gauge (completely and unassisted fall into the gauge and fall out when turned upside down). Luckily, most of them I can still use for practice but some are so bad that I have to pull them to reuse the bullet and primer (the brass gets thrown out).

Any ideas or suggestions on how to correct this? Can I provide any other info or pictures that may help in trouble shooting this? It is really starting to get old.

[Amerflyer48]

I usually pull the barrel and use that as a check as that is the true decider if it will feed or not gauges tend to be tighter then most chambers I'd be willing to bet the rounds that don't drop will check OK in chamber and can be used for practice

Questions:

1 did you check after resizing and they all drop in ? then sizing is the issue if not then you will have to recondition the brass prior to reloading it.

2 if you did then the crimp would be where you would want to look too much or too little will cause enough to not check also if your OAL presents bullet beyond case mouth before it tapers such as a long loaded H&G 68 for a .45 that can catch on a gauge but RN will usually slide right in as they have no lip

3 what caliber as .40s tend to be Glocked and Redding can help you

and lastly keep the drop check gauge incredibly clean any schmoo can cause inconsistent gauging and rejected rounds

[blueorb]

I usually pull the barrel and use that as a check as that is the true decider if it will feed or not gauges tend to be tighter then most chambers I'd be willing to bet the rounds that don't drop will check OK in chamber and can be used for practice

Questions:

1 did you check after resizing and they all drop in ? then sizing is the issue if not then you will have to recondition the brass prior to reloading it.

2 if you did then the crimp would be where you would want to look too much or too little will cause enough to not check also if your OAL presents bullet beyond case mouth before it tapers such as a long loaded H&G 68 for a .45 that can catch on a gauge but RN will usually slide right in as they have no lip

3 what caliber as .40s tend to be Glocked and Redding can help you

and lastly keep the drop check gauge incredibly clean any schmoo can cause inconsistent gauging and rejected rounds

Sorry, I should have stated in my orig post....this is 9mm only.

1) I have never actually tried checking after resizing. I will run some through that stage and see how they gauge.

2) My crimp is probably a little loose but I have never had any problems with it. If it helps any I am using Bayou Bullets 9mm FP.

I am able to use a majority of my bad rounds in practice. I do get several that are so out of whack that I just pull them and reuse. I will also try gauging directly in the barrel. I am shooting a CZ 75.

[fireman489]

Are you loading lead ? I had this problem & actually just discovered it today. It started out maybe 10/100 then went to 20/100 then to 50/100 ... so I started gauging w my barrel.... I realized today, while looking into the case gauge wa back light, there was a black ring inside .... apparently some of the wax ring must of filled in making things worse & worse....

[fireman489]

oops guess we posted at the same time ... Ive never had any issues when I loaded Bayou....

[Amerflyer48]

BTW usually set my taper crimp die to .003" under resized to start

as in resize a round measure OD at mouth then subtract .003" and taper crimp the case until you get that measurement at the mouth edge with NO Projectile then measure and record a loaded round for your records.

good luck and wishing a quick solution to your frustration

Edited October 4, 2013 by Amerflyer48

[blueorb]

I do try and keep my gauge clean. I clean it with alcohol on a regular basis. However, I have never actually used a light to look down in the gauge. I will do that also.

Thanks.

[fireman489]

I had to "scrape it out" alcohol on q tips would not remove it

[Longhill]

I experienced similar issues. not enough crimp was one issue. The other was the rim of the case was damaged probably during ejection after firing.

Try placing the case base first into the case gauge, it should go in 1/3 of the case length into the case gauge. If not, it got a burr, ding or dent on the case rim.

How to fix? Lee's case bulge buster and 9mm Makarov factory crimp die body (special order). Works great and cheap.

On the more costly side is the CasePro 100, its a roll sizing machine that reforms the base of the case back to factory specifications.

Cost around $800 with one set of dies. Works great too. There are lots of posts on the CasePro in this website. Search it out.

Edited October 4, 2013 by Longhill

[njl]

Not enough info. Gauge check some resized brass before doing anything else to it. If resizing isn't the problem, is it possible your're not seating the bullets quite straight, and so you have side bulges? Thick brass and bullets seated too deep?

Also, have you run a bunch of factory ammo through your gauge to make sure it's not undersized? Do the rounds that fail to gauge drop into your gun's barrel?

What bullets are you having this problem with? What's your finished cartridge neck diameter at the case mouth? i.e. crimping to 0.379" for example.

Edited October 5, 2013 by njl

[gigs]

Keep in mind, a case with a truely expanded head can't be sized down with a normal sizing die. Professionals use an automatic machine that's almost exactly like a cannelure machine to roll size the bases. I could be done with a collet as well the same way shotgun bases are sized. But not with a normal die.

[blueorb]

Not enough info. Gauge check some resized brass before doing anything else to it. If resizing isn't the problem, is it possible your're not seating the bullets quite straight, and so you have side bulges? Thick brass and bullets seated too deep?

Also, have you run a bunch of factory ammo through your gauge to make sure it's not undersized? Do the rounds that fail to gauge drop into your gun's barrel?

What bullets are you having this problem with? What's your finished cartridge neck diameter at the case mouth? i.e. crimping to 0.379" for example.

1) I have gauged resized brass. They all fit perfectly into the gauge. The bullets not seating straight is a distinct possibility. I am loading flat nose Bayou Bullets. Apparently, there are two types of Dillon seating dies...one for round nose and one for flat nose. I am using the round nose (only one I have) since I originally started with Montana Gold bullets. Going to call dillon about the flat nose die and see if that helps.

2) have not even thought about running factory ammo through the gauge. I can't imagine the gauge is undersized though. I still get 3/4 of my rounds to gauge. If it was undersized would I get a much higher reject number? The rounds that don't case gauge don't fall completely into my barrel either. They are as bad as when using the gauge but they still don't fall completely in the barrel.

Another thing I am thinking this could be is that I am not using enough bell/flare. I am noticing a lot of small slivers of bullet around the base of my press. Almost as if, when seating the bullet, the case is shaving a small sliver of bullet off. Not sure if that relates back to the RN/FN die that I am using or the bullets are seating incorrectly...maybe to not enough bell/flare?

Not a clue...

[kellymc]

Not enough info. Gauge check some resized brass before doing anything else to it. If resizing isn't the problem, is it possible your're not seating the bullets quite straight, and so you have side bulges? Thick brass and bullets seated too deep?

Also, have you run a bunch of factory ammo through your gauge to make sure it's not undersized? Do the rounds that fail to gauge drop into your gun's barrel?

What bullets are you having this problem with? What's your finished cartridge neck diameter at the case mouth? i.e. crimping to 0.379" for example.

1) I have gauged resized brass. They all fit perfectly into the gauge. The bullets not seating straight is a distinct possibility. I am loading flat nose Bayou Bullets. Apparently, there are two types of Dillon seating dies...one for round nose and one for flat nose. I am using the round nose (only one I have) since I originally started with Montana Gold bullets. Going to call dillon about the flat nose die and see if that helps.

2) have not even thought about running factory ammo through the gauge. I can't imagine the gauge is undersized though. I still get 3/4 of my rounds to gauge. If it was undersized would I get a much higher reject number? The rounds that don't case gauge don't fall completely into my barrel either. They are as bad as when using the gauge but they still don't fall completely in the barrel.

Another thing I am thinking this could be is that I am not using enough bell/flare. I am noticing a lot of small slivers of bullet around the base of my press. Almost as if, when seating the bullet, the case is shaving a small sliver of bullet off. Not sure if that relates back to the RN/FN die that I am using or the bullets are seating incorrectly...maybe to not enough bell/flare?

Not a clue...

I sure you just mentioned your problem . When you have slivers of lead coming off the bullet you are also craming some extra lead between the case and bullet. You will fix everything with more case bell.

Edited October 9, 2013 by kellymc

[HighCountryStalker]

The seating stem on your dillon seating die is reversible. One side is for seating round nose, the other for flatter profiles. Take your die apart and find which side of the stem fits your bullet profile best. They are not two separate dies.

Not enough flare is definitely a possibility. The shavings are not normal.

The dies being too small is very unlikely as you said but the lead bullets being oversized is very possible. I'd take some diameter measurements of your bullets.

Lastly too much crimp will bulge the lead and could be the cause of tipped bullets after that process as well as deforming the bullet enough not to case gauge.

All things to check out, if putting the loaded cartridge in the case gauge bullet first, is the first half or the last half that is not gauging? The answer might lead you to the problem.

Edited October 9, 2013 by HighCountryStalker

[blueorb]

Not enough info. Gauge check some resized brass before doing anything else to it. If resizing isn't the problem, is it possible your're not seating the bullets quite straight, and so you have side bulges? Thick brass and bullets seated too deep?

Also, have you run a bunch of factory ammo through your gauge to make sure it's not undersized? Do the rounds that fail to gauge drop into your gun's barrel?

What bullets are you having this problem with? What's your finished cartridge neck diameter at the case mouth? i.e. crimping to 0.379" for example.

1) I have gauged resized brass. They all fit perfectly into the gauge. The bullets not seating straight is a distinct possibility. I am loading flat nose Bayou Bullets. Apparently, there are two types of Dillon seating dies...one for round nose and one for flat nose. I am using the round nose (only one I have) since I originally started with Montana Gold bullets. Going to call dillon about the flat nose die and see if that helps.

2) have not even thought about running factory ammo through the gauge. I can't imagine the gauge is undersized though. I still get 3/4 of my rounds to gauge. If it was undersized would I get a much higher reject number? The rounds that don't case gauge don't fall completely into my barrel either. They are as bad as when using the gauge but they still don't fall completely in the barrel.

Another thing I am thinking this could be is that I am not using enough bell/flare. I am noticing a lot of small slivers of bullet around the base of my press. Almost as if, when seating the bullet, the case is shaving a small sliver of bullet off. Not sure if that relates back to the RN/FN die that I am using or the bullets are seating incorrectly...maybe to not enough bell/flare?

Not a clue...

I sure you just mentioned your problem . When you have slivers of lead coming off the bullet you are also craming some extra lead between the case and bullet. You will fix everything with more case bell.

Thanks for the reply. This is on my to do list for tonight. Hopefully, this will help.

The seating stem on your dillon seating die is reversible. One side is for seating round nose, the other for flatter profiles. Take your die apart and find which side of the stem fits your bullet profile best. They are not two separate dies.

Not enough flare is definitely a possibility. The shavings are not normal.

The dies being too small is very unlikely as you said but the lead bullets being oversized is very possible. I'd take some diameter measurements of your bullets.

Lastly too much crimp will bulge the lead and could be the cause of tipped bullets after that process as well as deforming the bullet enough not to case gauge.

All things to check out, if putting the loaded cartridge in the case gauge bullet first, is the first half or the last half that is not gauging? The answer might lead you to the problem.

I was not aware of the die being reversible. Learn something new every day. Thanks for the info.

Also, when putting the cartridge bullet first into the gauge, it is def the last half that is not gauging.

[gigs]

Also, when putting the cartridge bullet first into the gauge, it is def the last half that is not gauging.

That really sounds like expanded bases to me. I think Lee makes a "push through" die you can use to fix that, albeit slowly.

[cnote]

Need some help/suggestions please.

Luckily, most of them I can still use for practice but some are so bad that I have to pull them to reuse the bullet and primer (the brass gets thrown out)..

How do you reuse the primer before disposing of the brass?

Or did u mean powder?

Edited October 11, 2013 by cnote

[mjohn]

I agree..........good question. No problem to reuse the brass with the primer, but I am not familiar with how to reuse the primer and not the brass. I am not sure I would want to go through all the hassle to save $.02.

[njl]

You can decap a case with a live primer and put that primer into a different case. Theoretically, the primer could "go off" while you try doing this first step...which is why, IIRC, Dillon's instructions say not to try it.

[blueorb]

You can decap a case with a live primer and put that primer into a different case. Theoretically, the primer could "go off" while you try doing this first step...which is why, IIRC, Dillon's instructions say not to try it.

That is correct. However, if I followed Dillon's advice I would waste a ton of primers.

All I do is pull the bullet and dump the powder. I then place the brass in stage 1 and very carefully "deprime". I only go until I feel the little snap that indicates the primer is free. I then retrieve the still good primer and reuse it. Have never had a problem doing it that way. With primers being so hard to find I just can't afford to waste all those primers.

I usually wait until I have about 10 or so bad cartridges and them pull/deprime them all at once. It actually takes longer to pull the bullets than it does to deprime for the good primers.

Edited October 14, 2013 by blueorb

[njl]

Yeah...I've reused some primers too...but it's not something to be done lightly.

Actually, lightly is exactly what's called for when doing it.

[actionshooter38]

I had a similar problem with lead bullets in 45. I wasn't belling the case quite far enough and was getting a little bit of lead build up at the case mouth. this would often fail to chamber properly. A little more flare solved this. In 9mm, I find a little bit of flare in the base of the case, especially when using once fired range brass. I use a Lee factory crimp die instead of the Dillon and have cut my rejects down to less than 0.1%. Well worth the investment IMHO.