iPhone App for laser dry fire - to project targets, time/score hits?

[trgt]

So I'm having a ball, dry fire practicing with my SIRT (awesome!!). For targets I'm using my iPhone to project on the wall different target configurations I put together from one of the PPT/Keynote stage builders. (and with a portable battery powered pico projector, pretty much can do this anywhere indoors, or outside on a wall if not too bright).

I'm sure I'm not the first that has thought it would be cool to have an iPhone app that would

- project target scenes (drills, classifiers)

- have a shot timer and use the iPhone camera to track laser 'hits' from SIRT or any laser dry fire cartridge

- be able to score the target(s) as configured - minimally the targets, but no reason it couldn't also score misses, no hits, etc

- (and not sure if useful or possible, but maybe even compute a simulated hit factor from score/time?)

- shouldn't be impossible to then also seam together multiple systems, to allow real distance/movement between two sets of projected/tracked targets, and aggregate time/score for both (or more).

So I'm curious -- why isn't something like this out there right now?

I am aware of the following

- http://www.predatortactical.com/cart.php?m=knowledgebase_detail&id=5 -> nice targets - computer displays target with par time and a few moving targets, but doesn't 'see' or track your hits

- idryfire -> iphone app takes a picture of one shot and time for that shot from buzzer for $12

- imarksman -> computer system that's about a grand for software and camera - not really something for most folks

- lasershot -> another high end system

And I've seen a basic app for iPhone where a red laser pointer can shoot against projected moving targets, and the system will react/score the laser pointer hits.

So before I start seriously thinking that maybe I'd tackle something like this, I'm wondering if there is any common (or uncommon) knowledge I haven't found via search on the forums about why this isn't out there. My guess is smallish market WRT IPSC/USPSA ( 25k-ish US, 80k-ish total worldwide ??), where only a small fraction would buy it. But any other issues? Is IPSC/USPSA hardcore against someone using the metric or classic target in software? Is it not possible to track multiple laser hits (.15 seconds ?) with the iphone camera at the speed folks here can do double taps or bill drills with a SIRT or other laser trainer with that has a self-resetting trigger?

Any thoughts on any of this, or if there is potential interest in something like this, appreciated.

Edited August 28, 2013 by trgt

[andron]

So I'm having a ball, dry fire practicing with my SIRT (awesome!!). For targets I'm using my iPhone to project on the wall different target configurations I put together from one of the PPT/Keynote stage builders. (and with a portable battery powered pico projector, pretty much can do this anywhere indoors, or outside on a wall if not too bright).

I'm sure I'm not the first that has thought it would be cool to have an iPhone app that would

- project target scenes (drills, classifiers)

- have a shot timer and use the iPhone camera to track laser 'hits' from SIRT or any laser dry fire cartridge

- be able to score the target(s) as configured - minimally the targets, but no reason it couldn't also score misses, no hits, etc

- (and not sure if useful or possible, but maybe even compute a simulated hit factor from score/time?)

- shouldn't be impossible to then also seam together multiple systems, to allow real distance/movement between two sets of projected/tracked targets, and aggregate time/score for both (or more).

So I'm curious -- why isn't something like this out there right now?

I am aware of the following

- http://www.predatortactical.com/cart.php?m=knowledgebase_detail&id=5 -> nice targets - computer displays target with par time and a few moving targets, but doesn't 'see' or track your hits

- idryfire -> iphone app takes a picture of one shot and time for that shot from buzzer for $12

- imarksman -> computer system that's about a grand for software and camera - not really something for most folks

- lasershot -> another high end system

And I've seen a basic app for iPhone where a red laser pointer can shoot against projected moving targets, and the system will react/score the laser pointer hits.

So before I start seriously thinking that maybe I'd tackle something like this, I'm wondering if there is any common (or uncommon) knowledge I haven't found via search on the forums about why this isn't out there. My guess is smallish market WRT IPSC/USPSA ( 25k-ish US, 80k-ish total worldwide ??), where only a small fraction would buy it. But any other issues? Is IPSC/USPSA hardcore against someone using the metric or classic target in software? Is it not possible to track multiple laser hits (.15 seconds ?) with the iphone camera at the speed folks here can do double taps or bill drills with a SIRT or other laser trainer with that has a self-resetting trigger?

Any thoughts on any of this, or if there is potential interest in something like this, appreciated.

So I'm having a ball, dry fire practicing with my SIRT (awesome!!). For targets I'm using my iPhone to project on the wall different target configurations I put together from one of the PPT/Keynote stage builders. (and with a portable battery powered pico projector, pretty much can do this anywhere indoors, or outside on a wall if not too bright).

I'm sure I'm not the first that has thought it would be cool to have an iPhone app that would

- project target scenes (drills, classifiers)

- have a shot timer and use the iPhone camera to track laser 'hits' from SIRT or any laser dry fire cartridge

- be able to score the target(s) as configured - minimally the targets, but no reason it couldn't also score misses, no hits, etc

- (and not sure if useful or possible, but maybe even compute a simulated hit factor from score/time?)

- shouldn't be impossible to then also seam together multiple systems, to allow real distance/movement between two sets of projected/tracked targets, and aggregate time/score for both (or more).

So I'm curious -- why isn't something like this out there right now?

I am aware of the following

- http://www.predatortactical.com/cart.php?m=knowledgebase_detail&id=5 -> nice targets - computer displays target with par time and a few moving targets, but doesn't 'see' or track your hits

- idryfire -> iphone app takes a picture of one shot and time for that shot from buzzer for $12

- imarksman -> computer system that's about a grand for software and camera - not really something for most folks

- lasershot -> another high end system

And I've seen a basic app for iPhone where a red laser pointer can shoot against projected moving targets, and the system will react/score the laser pointer hits.

So before I start seriously thinking that maybe I'd tackle something like this, I'm wondering if there is any common (or uncommon) knowledge I haven't found via search on the forums about why this isn't out there. My guess is smallish market WRT IPSC/USPSA ( 25k-ish US, 80k-ish total worldwide ??), where only a small fraction would buy it. But any other issues? Is IPSC/USPSA hardcore against someone using the metric or classic target in software? Is it not possible to track multiple laser hits (.15 seconds ?) with the iphone camera at the speed folks here can do double taps or bill drills with a SIRT or other laser trainer with that has a self-resetting trigger?

Any thoughts on any of this, or if there is potential interest in something like this, appreciated.

[andron]

Just curious about iPhone app with the projector - how much is the iPhone projector?

[trgt]

> Just curious about iPhone app with the projector - how much is the iPhone projector?

Could use any projector (or big screen) with iPhone, at least that has HDMI input, since the iphone will output HDMI. I'm using iPhone 5 with

- Apple Lightning Digital AV Adapter $49

- Brookstone HDMI Pocket Projector $299

Then for the App I'm just using Keynote, the iphone version, which is $9.99. On my Mac I also use Keynote (Apple's Powerpoint) where I set up the targets on each screen (stage) using some of the targets from one of the powerpoint stage templates (which Keynote opens no problem). I move the file to my iPhone where I can use for target practice with the projector whenever I have a moment.

The batteries for the pocket projector are supposed to last 2 hours, I don't come close to that in practice time for a session. There's no reason I couldn't do it with normal projector or big screen that plugs in, but the little portable projector is nice to just set up anywhere on the go. Similarly, there no reason you couldn't just set up scenes/stages in powerpoint, save each as a graphic file on USB drive, and for many projectors, just run directly from there w/o the iPhone.

[andron]

> Just curious about iPhone app with the projector - how much is the iPhone projector?

Could use any projector (or big screen) with iPhone, at least that has HDMI input, since the iphone will output HDMI. I'm using iPhone 5 with

- Apple Lightning Digital AV Adapter $49

- Brookstone HDMI Pocket Projector $299

Then for the App I'm just using Keynote, the iphone version, which is $9.99. On my Mac I also use Keynote (Apple's Powerpoint) where I set up the targets on each screen (stage) using some of the targets from one of the powerpoint stage templates (which Keynote opens no problem). I move the file to my iPhone where I can use for target practice with the projector whenever I have a moment.

The batteries for the pocket projector are supposed to last 2 hours, I don't come close to that in practice time for a session. There's no reason I couldn't do it with normal projector or big screen that plugs in, but the little portable projector is nice to just set up anywhere on the go. Similarly, there no reason you couldn't just set up scenes/stages in powerpoint, save each as a graphic file on USB drive, and for many projectors, just run directly from there w/o the iPhone.

can you set PAR for one or multiple targets? how important is this for your practice?

[trgt]

> can you set PAR for one or multiple targets? how important is this for your practice?

I can't do any of that --- that was part of the point of my inquiry, sorry if I was confusing.

Today I just project targets on the wall with the setup as just described, and use a my normal shot timer for par time practice (yes, it is important as part of the dry fire drills).

My question was why isn't there an iPhone app that uses hdmi out to project/display targets, and its camera to track/score laser hits on the target. Detection of multiple hits, scoring, par timer functions. Something full blown like iMarksman looks pretty cool for that running on windows computer, but that's the cost of a new firearm. Seems like there'd be room for something a level below that on the iPhone, maybe the price of a few boxes of ammo -- just trying to figure out why that doesn't exist.

Edited August 29, 2013 by trgt

[andron]

> can you set PAR for one or multiple targets? how important is this for your practice?

I can't do any of that --- that was part of the point of my inquiry, sorry if I was confusing.

Today I just project targets on the wall with the setup as just described, and use a my normal shot timer for par time practice (yes, it is important as part of the dry fire drills).

My question was why isn't there an iPhone app that uses hdmi out to project/display targets, and its camera to track/score laser hits on the target. Detection of multiple hits, scoring, par timer functions. Something full blown like iMarksman looks pretty cool for that running on windows computer, but that's the cost of a new firearm. Seems like there'd be room for something a level below that on the iPhone, maybe the price of a few boxes of ammo -- just trying to figure out why that doesn't exist.

The cost of development for iPhone is too high. Don't forget to add the cost of projector. iDryfire app - are you ready to pay $24.99 for multiShot app?

[trgt]

... My question was why isn't there an iPhone app that uses hdmi out to project/display targets, and its camera to track/score laser hits on the target. Detection of multiple hits, scoring, par timer functions. Something full blown like iMarksman looks pretty cool for that running on windows computer, but that's the cost of a new firearm. Seems like there'd be room for something a level below that on the iPhone, maybe the price of a few boxes of ammo -- just trying to figure out why that doesn't exist.

The cost of development for iPhone is too high. Don't forget to add the cost of projector. iDryfire app - are you ready to pay $24.99 for multiShot app?

Iphone development cost isn't that horrible, I've (had) made apps on iphone and android before. It just depends on the scope of what you are tackling. I'm not suggesting building a course of fire simulator, or iphone version of what I think it is iMarksman does; I'm just wondering about something that will track/time multiple laser hits from a SIRT to one or more targets.

Regarding projector - you could probably also hook up to your TV via HDMI, most folks have one of those these days.

But that's a good point about whether its better to project your own targets (for screen or projector), or simply 'watch' something like a target placed on the wall. My guess is it doesn't matter (to the user) for a single target which one of those you do. But beyond that, for doing multiple targets, providing the targets to display/project will make it easier for you in the app to score what is going on beyond just tracking/timing laser 'hits'.

On price, I'd personally pay $25 no problem for an iphone app that could track/time multiple shots from my SIRT. That's less than the cost of two boxes of ammo :-)

[andron]

i think iPhone with PAR and multi shots will be ready in 1-2 weeks

[trgt]

... so I've started to go ahead and build this, at least some of what I wanted for dry fire practice, using the iPhone to track location and time/splits of my SIRT laser pistol hits.

Here's a few videos of testing I'm doing right now on the new app:

(draw, 2 shots each)

(draw, 1 shot each, reload, 1 shot each)

The purpose of the video isn't to show you my poor technique, still far to much movement on laser during trigger pull. And I'm not really setting any speed records here. But you can see how long draw took on first split, and the splits on all hits and reload, as well as location of hits on target.

Since the iPhone/iPad App is tracking the SIRT laser hits, I can have the laser aim adjusted for point of impact just below what I can see on my front sight, so I don't see the laser while I'm shooting.

A little clean up still to get a solid first version out, but maybe in time for January practice for anyone getting a SIRT for Christmas, we'll see :-)

Edited December 10, 2013 by trgt

[Rokihsa]

I would buy this. Hands down would be an awesome App!!

[steel1212]

I don't even have a sirt but would buy One to be able to do that with targets!! Thats awesome!!!

[justpaul]

awesome APP ! Can't wait to see how this develops

[LilBunniFuFu]

awesome APP ! Can't wait to see how this develops

+1 for wanting to see how this pans out.

[Tcon260]

I would buy this app

[trgt]

Thanks for the support / comments! It pretty much works right now. Just trying to make it as usable as possible in daylight, so you can use in well lighted rooms or outside. That's taking a little tweaking, but then will get it out soon. I'm also trying to see how quickly I can fold in scoring hits on target, at least the A zone in, but that might be a future version. You can certainly do 'normal' method of eyeballs on target to see your score :-)

[jnr88]

_{Count me in.}

[steel1212]

Will this work with any laser? Like the laser bullets.

[Chills1994]

Neat!

[Chills1994]

I posted in this thread back in 2011:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=130909&hl=%2Blaser#entry1509990

which would lead you to here:

http://www.dryfireus.com/

which is a system the trap and skeet shooters use. big, big bucks, put it would pay for itself quickly versus the cost of shotgun ammo for a youth team for one season.

[trgt]

Will this work with any laser? Like the laser bullets.

Yes, its set up to 'see' both Red and Green laser. So SIRT red or green, laserlyte or any other cartridge red, and of course my kids favorites, the $5 red and green laser pointers (those not so good for dry fire :-) It has a pretty fast sampling rate, so it should catch the laserlyte's bullets momentary laser burst. But thanks for asking and reminding me to test that.

I posted in this thread back in 2011:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=130909&hl=%2Blaser#entry1509990

which would lead you to here:

http://www.dryfireus.com/

which is a system the trap and skeet shooters use. big, big bucks, put it would pay for itself quickly versus the cost of shotgun ammo for a youth team for one season.

Thanks on the thread / link. It looks like they put a lot of thought into that system.

My goal was to build something that could help my training on trigger control, speed, and accuracy -- basically something with measurable feedback about what was going on with my dry fire practice. And a point from your thread, to make dry fire 'fun'. I know there are some really nice simulation systems, but that's a bit beyond what I was thinking, at least a full on simulation. But I can post something in just a bit to show where I can take this.

[steel1212]

Oh man this has me wanting to dryfire....more!!

[steel1212]

Something I was thinking about is there a way to adjust target size for distance?

[trgt]

Something I was thinking about is there a way to adjust target size for distance?

For now that is something you do based on size of target and how far away from it you are, just like you'd do normally. For example, if you want to simulate hitting a USPSA target at 10 yards (30 feet), and you can be 10 feet (1/3 of the distance) from your practice target, you scale your practice target down to 1/3 size. Hopefully this answered your question -- right now my iPhone app is using the camera to 'watch' your physical target for laser hits. So you decide how big of a target to use, and how far away you are from it.

[PistoleroJesse]

Anyone else tried ShootOFF?

They are adding support for drawing your own target, have a shot timer

It's a bit finicky with the SIRT because the shot time is only regulated by the shooter so some times it picks up two shots.

Edited December 15, 2013 by PistoleroJesse