Which Acog?

[Hulk]

So here in Finland we shoot 3gun at ranges of 5-300meters with very few stages over 150m. I have been thinking about the Acog for this (bm modularcarbine, jp trig, bc comp)

1. Is the TA11 or TA31 series better for this and why?

2. Also My left eye is very dominant, but I shoot right handed. Is that a problem With BAC concept? been using aimpoint now with left closed for longer ranges than 25m. Pistol I shoot left eyed, right handed.

3. I`ve been thinking that if I shoot left eye closed It would be faster if I can get the magnification low at short ranges, What do you think?

4. And you with good eyes do you shoot longer ranges both eyes open?

5. P.S. Do you know where to find the S&b 1.1-4 short-dot reticle pictures.... or is it the same as flash-dot?

[Zak Smith]

1. TA11. The TA11 has 2.4" of eye relief over the TA31's 1.5", and this really pays off when you're shooting from compromised positions, or need to go fast. I've tried both and sold off my TA31, kept the 3 TA11's.

2-3. No clue, sorry.

4. I always shoot with both eyes open.

5. I don't think the S.D. has been release to the civilian market yet in the US. Some people over on the LightFigheter.Net forums have them.

-z

[kurtm]

Compromised positions??? I don't think eye relief would help...perhaps lots of friends dressed the same way I am, and air support would be better!

Hulk, Pacman has the same problem you do. I think if you P.M. him he would share what he has found out. I know he is really liking the TA-21 wich is a 1.25-4X scope, and when I saw him shoot it at RM3-G, he was hitting everything he pointed it at, even with the left eye dominant problem!

[Paule]

The TR21 is a great scope for 3-Gun. If they ever make it on a true 1x-4x, it will be unbeatable, IMHO. I have both the TR21 and TA11B (and TA31F). The TA11 is clearer for longer ranges, but only slightly. For close up the TR21 is faster by a little. The TA31 is slowest of the three.

[coulter6]

I have a TA31 and a TA01 I've used on my JP15. For most matches I prefer the TA01 because of the more precise reticule. The TA31 donut reticule is fast for close-in shots but lacks the accuracy of the TA01 between 100 & 300 meters. Since most targets we use are between 25 & 300 meters, the TA01 is my choice. Out beyond 300 meters they work the same. BTW, I shoot with both eyes open.

[Hulk]

how do you like the jp sight on acog?

Does anyone use it for 3gun?

[rhino]

Why Hulk need scope?

Why Hulk not just smash targets with big green fists?

(sorry for the thread drift, but I couldn't resist)

[George]

Hulk, If by "how do you like the jp sight on acog" you mean the JP-TA01 ACOG, then yes, "I" like it and do use it for 3 gun. It is a TA01 with all the extra crap out of the reticle. At 4x, it loses a few points to the 3.5x TA11 on closer engagements, but I don't care because I use a secondary sight for almost everything under 60-70 yards anyway.

I wouldn't say that my eyes are "good", but I don't need any correction (yet). I used to shoot "through" the scope when I ran a Leupold variable (with a secondary red dot for close stuff). But now that I have switched to an ACOG for my primary sight, the generous eye relief and lack of parralax allow me to keep both eyes all of the time. This is superior for many reasons, key among them is the transition to the next target when it isn't already with the scope's field of view.

I still find myself closing the off eye on long shots when I have a real solid position and I am just about to break the shot. I find I like to narrow my focus down to what is happening at the target for those short moments just before and just after the shot breaks and you are still waiting for a target response. That way I really know exactly when I have a hit and don't have to wait through the RO lag to start moving on to the next task ;-)

I have heard of shooting a rifle weakside to get the better eye behind the scope. It makes sense to me. I do know that my weak eye struggles to focus well whenever I have to use a scoped rifle weakside (definitely a good thing to practice).

I would think that, but do not know for sure that, the BAC would work best with the better eye behind the glass.

--

Regards,

[Hulk]

sorry for my poor english.

I mean a JPoint sight on Acog scope like on top of a ta31.

[PacMan]

Hmm...another "cross-dominant" weirdo like me Hope the following helps:

1) I got to play with both, and I liked them both at 100 yds and beyond. Short yardage, I hate them because my left eye would take over I'm sticking with the Trijicon TA21R for low power at short range coupled with that bright red triangle reticle.

2) BAC worked for me but only at super low magnification, like 1.25-1.75. Any more than that, my brain would take too long to filter visual input from both eyes and the left one wins most of the time - NOT good for right hander.

3) Don't shoot short range with lefty closed, it only fatigues your eyes. Keep both open and train your brain to accept input from the right eye. It took me over a year just to get to this point, it is not perfect, but much better now since I can shoot shotgun with both eyes open albeit seeing two sight pictures sometime. What worked for me so far is a bright red reticle/shotgun glow worm since I can force myself to accept the brighter sight picture hence right eye information.

4) At longer range, since it would not hurt to take a little time to make the shot, close the dominant if that would help, but learn to wean from squinting. I'm still working at it. In the long run, it would be much less stress on your eyes if both stay open. First hand experience: I went to a rifle match with iron sights on both AR and AK, and my eyes were so tired (from squinting the left one) after the first 3 shooting positions (out of 5 positions) and the rest were blurry.

5) Can't help ya there, but I would suggest that you check out the EOTech holosight. No magnification, but the 1 MOA dot in the middle of the 65 MOA circle works for 10" plates at 250 yds (a little over 220 meters) Some with good eyes can see beyond this range, but not me. The large circle kicks a$$ at short range!

[Hulk]

Not being really patient, I already ordered and got a TA31F and I love it!

For under 50meters/yards I`m thinking of putting a jpoint on top of it.

Do you guys have any experience of such a set up?

Or would the jpoint be better at the side of the forward grip?

Jprifles seems to offer a base that has protective ears for the plastic optic, Is that base ok? seems a bit flimsy in pictures.

Thank you again for answers.

[rhino]

The Jpoint would be better on the fore end, as close to the boreline as possible.

It's intended for shooting the close stuff. If you mount it on top of the other scope, you're increasing your holdover at close range.

[George]

Hi Hulk,

Yeah, a JPoint, or Docter red dot is superior at anything close enough to throw rocks at ;-)

I ran a JPoint on top of a scope for a little while, but the huge (3") POI offset at close ranges was a real bummer. Moved it down to the handguard and now it is a wonderful thing.

I don't even think about the offset now that it is about 1.25" overall (canting the rifle puts POI 1.25" low and .35 left of aimpoint at point blank).

I have the basic piece of rail (JPTR) that fits on the handguards from JP and a (JPA-W) weaver rail adapter. I have slammed it around like that for over a year now and have had no problems at all. I don't baby it either. If the winged adapter raises the dot compared to this setup, I wouldn't bother with it. If it's lower than my setup, let me know and I will order one right now! :-)

I did find a direct to handguard adapter on their website for 2" handguards (JPA-THG). I wonder if that is what you mentioned? I will be calling them tomorrow.

--

Regards,

[Hulk]

This is what I was after: http://www.jprifles.com/photos/JPA-ACOG2s.jpg

http://www.jprifles.com/photos/JPA-ACOGs.jpg

[Hulk]

now going to order this Jpoint and adapter, do you recommend 4 or 8 moa point?

[lynn jones]

i'd say go with the 8 moa. you will be shooting up close and fast with the dot.

get the big one.

lynn

[George]

i'd say go with the 8 moa. you will be shooting up close and fast with the dot

I would go with the 4MOA dot, it is just as quick to acquire as the 8, but it will offer a lot more precision at 20-50 yards where it will still be faster than finding things in the ACOG.

Ask John Paul at JP, I am sure he will recommend the 4 too.

I now see what you mean about the ACOG mount. I guess that would work OK, but it is going to present a HUGE offset on the real close stuff. With that setup you will need to deal with over three inches of holdover on close upper A shots. IMHO, a handguard mount position is superior for any secondary sight system.

--

Regards

[Hulk]

1 vote each (4 and 8 moa dot), Also asked JP@JP and in his offer it was 8moa. decisions, decisions.

[uscbigdawg]

So is the concensus then that the TA-11 is the heat (other than arguably the Accu-point)?

Makes sense to me. Simple reticle, good dot as a reference, and good magnification for distance.

Sweet. I'm sold. Now if I can just find one at a decent price (I hate retail!). ;-)

SPC Richard White

1/79th FA

[George]

Also asked JP@JP and in his offer it was 8moa

Hmmm! I have a 4MOA JPoint on my CTR-02 handguard on John’s dot size recommendation and an 8MOA one on my open pistol on his dot size recommendation. I did try the 8 on the rifle and found it too big and no faster (for me). The 8 is definitely the hot setup for shotgun and handgun use.

--

Regards,

[Hulk]

Well I got the TA31f + 4moa Jpoint on top of it.

I am VERY pleased with it, my dominant left eye is no more dominant with the magnified view of the right eye !

I can use the Jpoint from 5-50 meters and acog from 15-450meters very effectively.

I have zeroed the Jpoint in at 25m andhave no trouble taking headshots with it from 5-40 meters.

[rtr]

So is the concensus then that the TA-11 is the heat (other than arguably the Accu-point)?

Makes sense to me. Simple reticle, good dot as a reference, and good magnification for distance.

Sweet. I'm sold. Now if I can just find one at a decent price (I hate retail!). ;-)

Ask and ye shall receive.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=23&t=243280

[davidwiz]

$825 is about the "street" price on the TA-11. You can get them for that price from a variety of authorized dealers.

[Cactustactical]

David,

Trijicon rigidly enforces their MAP ( minimum allowable pricing) pricing structure. Their MAP pricing is 15% below the full retail price. They will and have threatened law suits for trademark violations and use the threat of taking away wholesale purchasing privledges from any "authorized" dealer who advertises and sells for below the MAP threshold. Don't ask why we are painfully aware of this process and how seriously Trijicon protects their pricing structure.

So, I find it very hard to believe that "authorized" dealers sell a NIB TA-11 for $825. That price is in the large neighborhood of wholesale / distributor level pricing, so a dealer would not be making any money at that price unless it was a blem, rebuilt or grey market product. If you have seen the TA-11 at this price, ($825), be very careful to make sure that it is actually new and does not come with "issues".

Also, given the current scarcity and high demand for these units, it makes no sense for a true Trijicon dealer to sell a NIB one and make little or no money on these. We are selling 3-5 units per week at $975, unadvertised price, and there is no shortage of people wanting them.

Caveat Emptor

[davidwiz]

When I was looking for a TA-11 (about 3 years ago), I saw quite a few authorized dealers selling them for about $850. I come across that price even now, for what are advertised as NIB scopes. The dealer will list a price of X dollars (usually at retail), but w/ the words, "call for price". I'm not disagreeing with what you said, just that's what I've seen.