DougCarden Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 Ok you accuracy freaks, I have been using a Ransom Rest to test my 9x19 blaster with some loads at 50 yds. I finally figured out how to get my STI set in the rest properly and got it to group per the instructions. My best groups were in a triangular pattern, Largest straight line was 2.934, the other was 2.3, and on one 6 shot string I had three touching, with the others blowing out to the largest area 2.4 inches away, center to center. My questions are: Am I asking too much if some of the rounds open up a little when I have several that are touching. Dont get me wrong, I am really happy about the groups. I guess what I am trying to find out is when you shoot groups at 50yds and have the load/gun fine tuned will the groups be circular in nature? One thing I am going to try is switching to brass instead of nickel cases. I have been told by people to use good brass for accuracy loads since the nickel cases can be more springy at the case mouth, and will try other primers. The two loads in question, 4.0gr Titegroup with 124 XTP, WSP and 3.5gr Titegroup with a 122LFP, WSP. Damn lead shoots better than the xtps......I will try the loads with Zero 121 .356 bullets later in the week as well, per Wil Schuemann. Thanks in advance for any insights. A bunch of us are talking about going to Bianchi next year, and I am trying to figure stuff out before snow hits... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leroy Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 Doug, I have done a little work with the 9x19 on my ranson rest and what i found out it can make a lot of difference with just .1 gr of powder on the 9 x19 because of the small case... Sounds like you have some very nice groups I am no pro at this but common since tells me that with the small case like the 9x19 it does not take much to open up a group ot tighten it up. It seems to be a lot more touchy that larger calibers. Let me know what you find out I will be trying more with my 9x19 in the spring Leroy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 I've read that polymer framed guns can be troublesome with ransome rests too. Would it make sense to do your load development using a handheld resting position since you'll be shooting it, not the ransonme rest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan550 Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 Doug, Leroy's right about the small powder increments making a big difference. Also, another point to consider, you've already proven that the gun is "X-Ring capable" at 50, so if you do your part, you can "clean" all 4 Cup events! Good news, that! Consistant brass (new) will be a bit more accurate in the long run than the mixed stuff, but I figure you know that part of the equation. Try some different loads around the ones you're already using to see if there's more accuracy available, but for me, I'd be pretty tickled with groups like that out of a 9X19. Alan~^~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantJ Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 Doug 9mm is every bit as accurate as anything else. It is a matter of finding out what works best for you. I have not found it as critical as other rounds for accuracy. I am using a 115 gr Zero bullet with 4.8 gr of Vihtavuori N330. In my beaten up old blaster it shoots sub 2.5" groups at 50 "Prone" (sorry for the dirty word) no gimmicks or sandbags. N330 is a tad slower than WW231, and has a softer recoil. As for Brass, Starline is about as good as it gets. I have not had any problems in all the time I have used it. I do find though that once fired brass gives a better load consistency. GrantJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPiatt Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 I've played a little with 50 yd. accuracy for the Bianchi Cup. ;-) When working up loads, I don't use a Ransom Rest. I lay prone or sit at a bench with some sand bags. Just like rifle shooting, don't do accuracy testing on windy days. It does make a difference. Be sure to be consistent with your grip pressure. Some days I can be at the range and shoot some really good groups... then a few hours later the groups open up. If you find a recipe that seems like it should work, don't give up on it so quick. Try it more than once. Your initial question asks about brass. It only makes sense to use new brass when working on accuracy. Remember you are changing variables to find a recipe that works. Using only new brass eliminates that variable. I've been lucky enough to have some really good guns built. Caspian 1911's built by Nowlin with Nowlin barrel & comps. 1 1/2 inch at 50 yds. is my normal without too much fussing on reloading. My load is new Starline .38 super brass, win small pistol primers, Sierra 115 JHP's, and 5.2 grains Hodgdon HP-38. Overall length depends on your chambering. In the past, I usually stuck with the same loading but changed bullets to check on the accuarcy. The guns that shoot 1 1/2 inch groups can shoot some really big groups if I don't put quality bullets down range. When it comes to bullets.... you get whata you pay for. Your post mentions that you're shooting XTP's then get better groups with lead bullets. With your powder choice and XTP's, you should be shooting good. I'd be looking at your barrel. It may be on the large size and may need .355 - .356+ bullets. Good luck... I'll see you in Columbia come May. Bruce Piatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted November 8, 2004 Author Share Posted November 8, 2004 Wow guys, thanks for the replies and info..More than I had hoped for. The day that I ran the rest it was windy, so I dont know what to expect on a good day. I will have to play and see what happens. I will take everything to heart. Thanks for this wonderful place, Brian. DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted November 24, 2004 Author Share Posted November 24, 2004 Just for giggles I put my 9SC Schuemann barrel back in the gun today to see what I could do at 50, versus the 9x19. It wont be coming back out. Crap load of beat up brass, MG 115jhp and 4.0 VV310 stayed in the Xring with one uncalled shot in the 10ring. Bulk Rem 115jhp with 4.4 VV310 stayed within the xring when I did my part. Needless to say I have had fun with the 9x19, but I will be shooting my 9SC for accuracy at Bianchi. Funny, I went to 9x19 to save money for brass, etc, and the money I have burned up testing the 9x19 would have paid for many thousands of new Starline brass........... I do have a bunch of good 25 yds loads for the 9x19 though...... Thanks for all the info, guys! DougCarden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Pistolero Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Doug, Welcome to the dark side! Now, weigh your bullets, trim your cases and weigh them and start again. You may be amazed at the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 my 9 will shoot under 2" at 50 with 115gr at about 1520. It will also shoot that with a light charge of bullseye with 122gr lead fp. Lead is just as accurate if you are not exceeding 1350 fps or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted November 24, 2004 Author Share Posted November 24, 2004 AP, about weighing the bullets? I weighed a box of Sierra 115jhps and a box of 124XTPs, was surprised at what I found, but all where within 2%. Do you go with however many you have at a certain weight, or just segregate and test by themselves? Thanks in advance(as he grumbles down to the shop to pull a bunch of expensive bullets out of 9x19 cases..... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 AP, about weighing the bullets? I weighed a box of Sierra 115jhps and a box of 124XTPs, was surprised at what I found, but all where within 2%. Do you go with however many you have at a certain weight, or just segregate and test by themselves? Thanks in advance(as he grumbles down to the shop to pull a bunch of expensive bullets out of 9x19 cases..... ) Doug, I'm a novice at this sport, but I don't think matching bullets by weight is all that important. Maybe for your 192/384 rounds of 'Cup (by which I mean rounds actually shot in Columbia, MO). One more thing you might try. Robbie said he shoots a 9mm 105 gr NT frangible factory load from Winchester. He shot a 1905 with irons out of a 6" gun with that set up. Its a bit spendy at $20/50, though. DP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT Driver Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 ActionPistolero is meticulous. Tried weighing bullets etc...didn't make that much of a difference but it might to some. I shot XTP's when it mattered .. the weight is very consistent. But now I shoot Zero's 'cause they are cheaper. Case Pro-ing pistol brass did more for me than trimming. I just set the powder measure 4.2 and go. With N320 my SD is 3 to 5, so I don't worry about it. If your pistol is picky or you like the process, go for it. Maybe I got lucky with a pistol that is very tolerant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Pistolero Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 Doug, When I weigh bullets I will separate them into piles that are all close to the same weight. When I say that I mean one pile will be 115.0 to 115.1. The next one will be 115.2 to 115.3 and so on. The biggest pile is the one that I use. When I load for Bianchi I will weigh them out until I get 500 in one pile. That gives me enough to shoot the match, sight the gun in and have some to spare in case of a re-shoot. I tried the 115 gr xtp's and found a big weight difference between lot to lot. I was shooting the 125 gr hap's and didn't notice this but then again I bought them in cases of 3000. I now shoot Sierra 115 JHP. They are more consistant lot to lot. I'm going to get raked over the coals again for this but when I first tested my action gun with a schumann aet barrel I got a 0.498" group at 50 yards from a ransom rest following the above procedure. I haven't had the chance to do the testing on my current gun that I would like but it seems to respond well to the weghed bullets. A few weeks ago I shot an Action match with the new rules and shot a 480-42X Practical. Some people say that 2" groups at 50 is good enough for Action Pistol. I want the gun to shoot as tight of a group as possible. That way if I get careless during a match and the dot is on the edge of the plate I will still hit the plate. A 2" gun may or may not. A long time ago I had a Company Commander in Navy boot camp that was always saying "attention to detail people!!!" I've found that it works every time it's tried. I believe that the results that I have had prove my point. Confidence in your equipment and your loads makes a difference. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted November 25, 2004 Author Share Posted November 25, 2004 Rock on! Thanks, Kevin. I too have a AET coming. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Steve Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 I'll add my .01 cents worth of input. Yeah I know the saying is .02 cents worth but I aint that smart so it aint worth as much. But worth the ammount you pay. I would go with weighing bullets for a big match. Why not get every edge you can? Heck if your spending a but load of money it would only make sence to do it right. Here is how I would do it. Shoot 10 shots of one wieght then fire five shots of the highest weight followed by five of the lowest weight. Just to see the difference. The highest and lowest weights would be on the same target. Use new brass to keep neck tension consistant. Then repeat the process using the most used brass you can find. This will show what factors contribute the most to the accuracy. I would try this but I suck. Actually when my open gun is finnished next month I will do this test. Happy Thanksgiving, and remember to always ensure to seat your mags properly in the gun and double check to make sure. As AP and I know you can go for years with out a hitch then get hammered on this one. I went about 15 years with out a hitch till I drove 6 hours to a match and have my mag fall out at the 15 yrd line on the mover. Dirty Steve, Out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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