feederic Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 I have a tightly fitted pistol I've been shooting in the white for awhile, and would like to get it cerakoted. Does the inside of the slide and frame get coated? Wouldn't this affect fit (i.e. slide no longer goes on the frame)? Does anybody know of people local to Southern CA that has coated tightly fitted pistols? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) I had my custom 1911 Coated. It will take some break in but once it does it will fill like butter. Edited July 31, 2013 by steel1212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Hello: It depends how tight the fit is. I had one done and it was a good tight fit before the coating. After the coating I could not assemble it. I had to remove the coating from the rails. That is was a real pain in the arse! I would check with who you are using to see what they think. My local guy now knows not to coat the rails on new guns from me. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feederic Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 Hello: It depends how tight the fit is. I had one done and it was a good tight fit before the coating. After the coating I could not assemble it. I had to remove the coating from the rails. That is was a real pain in the arse! I would check with who you are using to see what they think. My local guy now knows not to coat the rails on new guns from me. Thanks, Eric I called up a few local places and they said .0005 to .001 would build up. I think this would be too much for my pistol. Do you leave the frame rails uncoated now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee blackman Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 They should be able to mask the rails and inside of the slide when they coat it, but I wouldn't recommend it. I'm not a cerakote fan. I remember before Cerakote, there was Dura Kote, and K-Kote, and another one before that. All still just different mixtures of a direct spray on then bake on coats. If they spray the inside, you will literally have to cycle the slide till it wears off. And the honest truth is, even though its a "self leveling" coat, the tolerances where it is sprayed will vary drastically at any given point, whether .0005 or .001, or more like .005.... Its never consistent, so you won't be able to mic the slide to frame finish and estimate. Its a cheap, easy to do, and a good profit maker for a local shop. But IMHO, and I'll probably get ragged on for this, its just one step above auto engine block enamel or krylon.... its still just spray painting the gun.. I have seen where, and this may just be an alternative technique, but I'm pretty sure it was a different treatment. But they stripped the metal, then suspended it with electrodes in a box. The indirectly sprayed the coat into the box and it attracted and attached itself to the slide. I could be mistaken but I believe this is how actual NP3 coating is done. If the gun is steel, I'd get it professionally blued. Or if stainless, professionally blackened. Other than that, maybe look into a dipped nitride process type finish. Even electro plating will give you a more consistent depth than cerakote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) Like krylon? Really do you have any experience with Cerakote at all? Nothing you listed is even in the same category as Cerakote. Sure your thinking he is sponsored by them so that's why he is defending it. Little background on that. I wasn't sponsored by them until one of the guys at NIC industries asked me to let him cost my 1911, the one I mentioned earlier which is also my avatar. Like you I thought it was some spray on paint but my gun was in the white so I said what the hell. Tens of thousands of rounds later it has very minimal holster wear on the 4 corners of the tri-tops on the slide. It protects the guns from the weather and if you look around you'll see how well it does in the salt test also. It retains oil quite well to keep the gun running through out the day instead of the oil just dripping off. So yes I now wear their shirt proudly. So for somebody to come in here and compare it to krylon is outrageous. Duracoat isn't even close. If anybody has seen my guns and know how much dry fire I do they will see the benefit of Cerakote over the other coatings that are out there. Sure a blued gun looks great until you shoot it in a match where it's raining and you don't get every little bit oiled back up... Edited August 1, 2013 by steel1212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Hello: Cerakote if applied correctly is very hard to remove. It was a bitch to remove it on the pistol that was too tight. I have used Duracoat and it is not even close to Cerakote. My open gun was Cerakoted. Cerakote has even lasted better than a pistol I had a Ion Bond finish on. If you find a good guy to do the coating he will get the coating very even. I am not sponsored by them but do like the product. My favourite coating is still hard chrome. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technetium-99m Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I coated a very well built open gun, and I won't do it again without masking off the rails. Lesson learned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightUp_OG Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I have seen where, and this may just be an alternative technique, but I'm pretty sure it was a different treatment. But they stripped the metal, then suspended it with electrodes in a box. The indirectly sprayed the coat into the box and it attracted and attached itself to the slide. I could be mistaken but I believe this is how actual NP3 coating is done. The box reference is Electrostatic painting or Powder Coating. NP3 is Electrochemical and is not done with paint but with Nickel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midget Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Just mask the rails, or use the old trick of covering them with Vaseline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solvability Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 If I had a gun that tight I would go for a DLC conversion coating or Nitride not a polymer coating. On the other hand I have had guns Cerakoted specifically to tighten them up - it works pretty well. Cerakote is a quality product and a good choice for many applications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee blackman Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 It may be a fancy spray paint, but its still just spray paint.... Like krylon? Really do you have any experience with Cerakote at all? Nothing you listed is even in the same category as Cerakote. Sure your thinking he is sponsored by them so that's why he is defending it. Little background on that. I wasn't sponsored by them until one of the guys at NIC industries asked me to let him cost my 1911, the one I mentioned earlier which is also my avatar. Like you I thought it was some spray on paint but my gun was in the white so I said what the hell. Tens of thousands of rounds later it has very minimal holster wear on the 4 corners of the tri-tops on the slide. It protects the guns from the weather and if you look around you'll see how well it does in the salt test also. It retains oil quite well to keep the gun running through out the day instead of the oil just dripping off. So yes I now wear their shirt proudly.So for somebody to come in here and compare it to krylon is outrageous. Duracoat isn't even close. If anybody has seen my guns and know how much dry fire I do they will see the benefit of Cerakote over the other coatings that are out there. Sure a blued gun looks great until you shoot it in a match where it's raining and you don't get every little bit oiled back up... Yes, like krylon. Oh My Gosh, I compared it to common off the shelf spray paint... It maybe be a different chemical composition, it may be more durable, but its still just another spray on finish, so yea its in the same category. Especially the C-Series (air dry) cerakote... Its great for applications that you would otherwise just Krylon, like the exterior of an AR. And it will last longer than Krylon. But if your going to put it on a handgun, I'd recommend using the H-series, the spray on/bake on. Its more durable, and adheres to the metal better. I'm glad you like it and it worked out for you, that 1911 is a great looking gun. And to answer your question, yes, I have more experience than bothered posting. I just didn't feel like typing a book on the forum. But since you indirectly insulted me, I'll not be so lazy. I have both positive and negative experiences with it. I have a friend who owns a local gunshop who has been doing it and its predecessors for years. I pickup used junk guns on the cheap sometimes, and do all the prep work myself, take the stripped parts to him, and he then sprays them for me on the cheap. I have had both the air cured and heat processed cerakotes done. I've had durakote, k-kote, teflon/moly spray/heat coat, bake on laquer, spray on parkerize, alumahyde, and even yes even krylon.. I have also had experiences with revolver cylinders not moving, slides siezed, and internal parts locking up. So I learned the hard way over time about spray on coats. I've also had it wear, peal, crack, and fade! And when it does wear off an you want to refinish it, then its a real pain to strip. But it has its applications... just not on the frame and slide rails of a tightly fitted 1911... which is why I made the recommendations that I did... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 (edited) Yup I guess it sucks on the tightly fitted frame and slide in my avatar.If your prep is bad or the applicator does a poor job yeah it won't come out well. You said yourself you picked up used junk guns, you did the prep, and your buddy sprayed it on for you on the "cheap". Any if you been trained? It's not as simple as just picking up a airbrush and going to town. But what do I know my guns don't peel, flake, chip, lock up, or fail to work after being coated by professionals. Hey I'm not trying to come across as some egotistical sponsored fan boy. I honestly wouldn't use it if I didn't think its the best out there. I've got tons of hard use experience with it and it just flat works. There is a reason a lot of manufactures are going to it. Edited August 1, 2013 by steel1212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
want2race Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 If the gun was built tight, I would still coat the rails. It's not impossible to remove just enough to get the slide on. It may take a little work to re-break in the gun but it is worth it to me. Applicators are just like gunsmiths in that there are good ones and bad ones. I prefer the feel of a gun that has the rails and inside of the slide coated. No bluing job will last as long, or hold up to abuse as well as Cerakote. I have no affiliation with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razor1 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 always mask the rails for any paint style coating. I even tape off the inside bottom of the slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag316 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Just mask the rails, or use the old trick of covering them with Vaseline Hmmm--I'll have to remember this one! I used Duracoat on a pistol I built for my wife, and it didn't turn out as well as I'd hoped. The next gun I refinish (probably my back up 1911) will get Cerakote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffchance Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 DO NOT use Vaseline with Cerakote. Proper prep requires ALL oils, etc. to be removed. It is a soak, brush, bake and repeat if necessary process to go through to remove all impurities, long before any coating is applied. Mask these areas off with the required heat resistant tape recommended for Cerakote. Use the required plugs where necessary. Do it right the first time and you will be pleased with the results. Go about it half cocked and you will get very poor results. JEFF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 We don't coat the rails when we Cerakote (the H Series is not really the same as any other of the spray on coatings I've used) unless the gun is loose, and then just a very light coat. I've seen a lot of bad Cerakote from people who either use the wrong tools or can't prep it properly, or just generally don't know what they are doing. Without a very good hvlp spray gun and booth, you won't get the quality that is possible, and I think a lot of people who badmouth it are likely not using the proper equipment (not many DIY'ers are going to pop $600 for a spray gun, clean room, and vent booth) and think they can get a good coat with an air brush. They don't understand the complexities of the product. Heck, we had to make up our own mix charts, because every color seems to spray differently, and the mix determine spray and sheen. I'm partial to DLC for tight guns because it is much easier to re-fit them, and time is tight here and it wears better, but Cerakote is relatively quick and easy with lots of color choices, has good rust prevention and pretty durable when applied correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quack Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 He's a little fun saga. A friend ordered a Legion Firearms 2011 last year. Legion uses frames/slides that STI makes for them and are pre-fit (built to Legions spec) before arriving at Legion. Well after Legion had the frame/slide finished in nickel boron and some had Cerakote on top of the NiBx, they would not go back together as the finish changed the dimensions. They had to machine and refinish to get them back together. On the flip side, a friend had a tightly fit 2011 finished in Cerakote by Chuck Rogers, and there was no issues with the parts going back together. Moral of the story is to find someone knowledgeable to apply it and you shouldn't have any issues. Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie45 Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 I recently did a DIY rebuild of a 1911. After tightening the slide to frame fit (using the methods taught in the AGI searies). After fitting all the parts I did the Cerakote finish. I debated wither to tape off the rails, but decided that I could relap them if necessary. After cericoting I had to lightly sand (600 grit) the inside of the bushing to fit. The slide the frame fit was too tight to function, but I was able to work it on with oil and after racking it a few hundred times, it ran very smooth and the fit is story very tight. I'm very happy with the final product. I'm curious what people that have been train and do it perfessionaly have to say about whither not not to treat the rails. My biggest concern was what sand blasting during the prep phase would do to the fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openmike Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 I'm a self taught Cerakote guy. All the projects I've completed have been tight race gun builds. I am getting really great results by being very anal about prep and product application. Upon reassembly, I start the slide and frame together with a lot of oil and a dab of Brownells 800 grit lapping compound. Usually less than 10 strokes and it's perfect. I flush the lapping compound slurry off and lube with my regular oil. I might be in my head, but I think the gun feels smoother after it's refinished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 My biggest concern was what sand blasting during the prep phase would do to the fit. Nothing if you do it right. Openmike, it is smoother, as the ceramic coating has a lower friction coefficient that steel on steel. We coat the locking blocks on the XD/XDM's and it makes a nice difference. Their wear testing videos are BS though. We coated the sample plates, which were ultra soft steel cards. DLC is think and the metal was so soft the metal was gone quickly, and their thick coating is able to flex more on a soft backing. It was a total misrepresentation of performance on hardened parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feederic Posted August 4, 2013 Author Share Posted August 4, 2013 Luckily I know someone that can nickel boron plate my gun for me for cheap. I might have someone locally cerakote the exterior. Lots of great info everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now