mas Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 Why am I getting "pushed around" by my .45. I'm riding the recoil, everything appears right, and I'm getting decent hits, BUT, steve moneypenny and Kingman have both noticed that when I shoot the 1911 .45, my body moves a bit from the recoil. I asked this question earlier and people gave me a few suggestions: 1. shoot a match - I finally did....twas a rockin good time 2. spring down - I'm running a 14 lb. with a shok buff 3. load lighter - can't yet...hi lead exposure so I'm not supposed to do any reloading. The movement does affect me as it slows down my reacquisition a little bit, and my stance has to be absolutely perfect to make sure I'm not getting pushed backwards. I only weigh about 155, and since I'm shooting full power loads, I'm wondering, do I need to stick to a lighter caliber or is there something else I can do? I want to be able to shoot my .45 for certain things, like L-10 major. Right now, I'll be shooting a 9mm in production, but I don't want to be limited to just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 All you should need is technique. Isosceles. - elbows bent - knees bent - shoulders forward...over the toes - weight off the heels If you still get pushed around, get a bit more aggressive in your lean. You might need to bring your strong side foot back a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 Flex is right. The biggest issue for most of us is keeping the elbows bent. We tend to lock them up tight: paticulalry as the shots get harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted October 18, 2004 Author Share Posted October 18, 2004 I definitely do keep the elbows bent and get a forward lean to my stance, but perhaps, as Flex has suggested, I need to get a little more aggressive.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sargenv Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 3. load lighter - can't yet...hi lead exposure so I'm not supposed to do any reloading. Um, one solution for high lead exposure is to use completely plated bullets. If you have to load ammo, at least when you load it, they will not deposit any lead on your skin. The stuff you buy has lead in the priming mixture, so you'd be getting that from factory or reloaded ammo. I use plated bullets and have pretty much completely eliminated the smoke that I used to get when shooting lead or coated lead ammo. Vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 Come to Las Vegas, Eat the buffets for about a week, That will give the 45 something to recoil against. Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 I will keep stating its not the load. The shape of a 1911 just does not fit your style. He really does shoot his glock compact .45 quicker than his full size 1911. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 He really does shoot his glock compact .45 quicker than his full size 1911. Shoot the Glock. In the alternative, buy another Glock..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Marques Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 If you do control the recoil better in the Glock, this might suggest that the grip angle has large influence on YOUR STYLE of shooting. One thing you might try to do is cock/angle your weakhand forward. i.e. rotate your hand such that your thumb is further forwardand more horizontal. This will help to control the gun better. Also, take a look at your grip on each gun-maybe you hold the Glock higher than the 1911. This also can cause the gun to give you more kick. keep us updated, hoped this helped! Dave Marques Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 See if you can control the 1911 with minor loads. That will tell you if it is your technique or not. 9times out of 10 people having problems dont know how hard to grip the gun, it is either too hard or not hard enough, and they are not aggressive enough. Lighter loads will answer some of those questions for you. DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted October 19, 2004 Author Share Posted October 19, 2004 my grip, from what others tell me, is just fine....it's certainly cammed correctly. I've shot an STI open gun in 38 super (Kingman's gun) and that was very easy to shoot. Perhaps it's a combination of the platform and caliber. As Kingman stated, I do tend to shoot the Glock better than the 1911, but......well, you know....it's the damn allure. I'll definitely let you know what I find this weekend. I'm putting on the old respirator and going to an indoor range (blech)....(in my best Darth Vader) LUKE, I am your father! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 my opinion here. mas you shoot your glocks (even a 30 with full power factor loads better than any 1911) the STI is NOT a single stack 1911 it is much thicker not to mention FLIP your biggest problem is not existant in an open gun. you shoot both your glock 19 and 30 far more proficiently than your 1911, if you get any more agressive in your stance you will be need something to lean on to keep you from falling over. Your build and stature is not putting enough of mas's mass behind the gun, gripping HARDER wthout more muscle is counter productive, get some major grip work with a high quality gripper is the only hope. your techinque gripping the gun is great back to the indoor range.... good luck on not getting shot!!! you actually live CLOSER to an outdoor range, just show up at their IDPA practice on wednesday night (thats tomorrow). I'm sure they will let you shoot. There is a match at east huntingdon, PA sunday www.geocities.com/ehpsa i believe, maybe u can make that one... (one match does not qualify as "match experience" ;-)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted October 19, 2004 Author Share Posted October 19, 2004 hehehe.....no, but it's a start. I'm looking forward to the next match...would be happy to go. point taken about the choice of platform. it's just disappointing, but not the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 Mas, I also had a high blood lead level for a while due to shooting at an indoor range with poor ventilation system. I never stopped reloading but have cut out the indoor shooting and now I wear latex gloves when I reload or clean guns. By making these 2 changes, my blood lead is now in the noise after 6 months. I also would suggest you experiement with your loads to reduce recoil. I load 230 gr. RN plated bullets to 169pf using Winchester WST powder and the recoil is much less then most factory loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted October 20, 2004 Author Share Posted October 20, 2004 Larry: so far I have been exclusively shooting outdoors since the lead exposure was diagnosed, but it's getting cold here in the back woods of West Virginia, and the only way I'm going to be able to shoot it seems is outdoors. As long as the weather on Saturdays is bearable and NOT raining, I may be able to shoot outdoors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 don't know I shot all last week, friday, saturday, match on sunday. Shooting all this week. Last night at shooters paradise and what a great place. BTW rain does not matter to me anymore I want my M card soon. So shooting more. If you want to shoot more figure out how to get down here more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 I shot with bob saturday, and sunday. . shot monday, shot tuesday, shot wednesday.... didn't shoot today i'm too tired. will shoot tomorrow, will shoot a match sunday for sure.... it doesn't get cold here mas. it gets cold in michigan and canada, not here :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted October 22, 2004 Author Share Posted October 22, 2004 Easy for you to say, sasquatch. I get cold opening the freezer door on my fridge. Bob, if you're shooting on Saturday, lemme know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryDGeek Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 I'm confused by this conversation. You say you get rocked around by your "1911 .45", but you don't have any problem shooting the STI in .38 super. That's a 1911. What's the diff? The ammunition? If you feel you're getting rocked back by a 1911 singlestack in .45acp, or something similar, I assume it's not the 1911 action or grip-angle that's giving you fits. And the comments seem to indicate that you've achieved the best stance (slight lean forward, elbows bent) and grip, so that eliminates a lot of the obvious things. My best guess ... and it's only a guess ... is that because the STI Open Gun is compensated, you don't get the actual recoil that you would get from a .45acp. It may very well be that you are reacting to the real and perceived recoil of a fulll-power .45acp. Doesn't answer the question of how you can shoot a major-power Glock and not experience the same phenomena, though. It would be interesting to watch you shoot the Glocks, the '1911 .45", and the STI Open Gun to determine whether there are any differences in stance & grip. Frankly, I am inclined to assume that the diffence is 'perceived recoil', which is likely to be influenced by the load. Earlier contributions suggest that you're also shooting a ".45" in Glock, so that kind of eliminates the load as a factor, assuming you're shooting the same ammunition in both guns. (Bear with me here, I'm using "Stream of Consciiousness" to demonstrate the logical process. Such as it is.) Finally, I'm getting down to the possibility the you're shooting a single-stack 1911 and a wide-body Glock. Given that you stated you have a relatively small frame, I wonder if the grip width isn't the deciding factor? The wider grip distributes the real recoil over a larger area, and this may reduce the perceived tactile impression you receive from shooting the pistols. Is it possible that you experience a negative impression from shooting a .45 in a narrow-grip (singlestack) pistol and are involuntarily recoiling from the experience? It may be that the solution for you would be to try a wide-body in the same or similar caliber, just to determine whether a .45acp with a wide grip would effect the same consequences. If it seems 'softer' to you, and you don't recoil from the shot, you might attribute the reaction to the shape and size of the grip. Or I may be full of beans. Jerry the Geek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewayte Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 JerryDGeek - your post made me think when you mentioned recoil. The Glock's polymer frame absorbs some of the recoil and is probably cushioning the blow from the full house .45 round. Just goes to show one size does not fit all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted October 25, 2004 Author Share Posted October 25, 2004 Yeah, the 38 super I shot is a compensated pistol...lots of fun. Now that I've been shooting 9mm almost exclusively, shooting anything else feels heavy in the recoil department. Also, I no longer like the grip angle of a 1911 compared to that of the Glock. I shot an STI in .40 yesterday and that gun felt like it was going to flip to the celing. Looks like I may just stay with Glock in 9mm. It stinks for shooting anything but production given the scoring for minor, but oh well. It's what I can handle comfortably, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Also, I no longer like the grip angle of a 1911 compared to that of the Glock. Assuming your 1911 has a flat mainspring housing, you may want to try a curved or wedge mainspring housing. That should give you a similar wrist angle to the Glock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryDGeek Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Assuming your 1911 has a flat mainspring housing, you may want to try a curved or wedge mainspring housing. That should give you a similar wrist angle to the Glock. Good point. When I bought my singlestack Kimber, the first thing I did was to install a Smith & Alexandar arched mainspring housing on it. I have big hands, and after shooting a double-stack pistol for a few years I had become accustomed to a grip that was more user friendly. The arched mainspring housing helped fit the gun to my hands, and it gave me better control. I'm not sure this is applicable to you, because I seem to recall that you mentioned you are slightly built, which implies that your hands may fit the singlestack grip better than mine did. But it might be something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted October 26, 2004 Author Share Posted October 26, 2004 A singlestack doesn't give me enough bearing surface to wrap my paws around the grip in a comfortable manner. I don't have big hands, but the feel of a singlestack is "awkward." I'm always trying to figure out exactly how to get my hands wedged onto the darn thing. I was informed that the .40 STI I shot after a match last weekend may have been sprung way too high ('twas flip-a-licious)....I'm hoping to go to this particular range that actually rents out competitive handguns so I can try 'em all out. If none of 'em fit, then I'm sticking with Glock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 - shoulders forward...over the toes- weight off the heels If you still get pushed around, get a bit more aggressive in your lean. You might need to bring your strong side foot back a little. That will reduce body motion at a price: your legs fatigue a lot faster. If you move your center of mass forward. you remain upright because your calf muscles (and hamstrings) have tension applied to the foot and toes. You will feel the pressure shift to the toes as you unbalance your stance forward. It is the stance I see most pros using so I guess their legs are up to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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