MikeyG23 Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 Is it possible to remove the Series II safety parts from a Kimber and the gun still function properly? If so what do you remove/replace ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 You can remove the fp safety activator from the lower and just put a regular firing pin in the slide. You won't need any shims or spacers like you would with a Series 80 safety in a Colt. I did this when I pinned my grip safety and discovered that I could no longer remove the slide without first removing the grip safety. So far this has worked for several thousand rounds without any problems. -ld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyG23 Posted October 7, 2004 Author Share Posted October 7, 2004 So are you saying that you have to remove the grip safety to remove the slide since you removed the parts ? Or do you have to remove the grip safety to remove the slide because of the grip safety being pinned ? I have no problem removing the fp safety parts but do not want to de-activate the grip safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFlowers Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 On the Kimber, activation of the grip safety raises a pin in the frame which engages a springed block in the slide. With the pin pushing the block upward, the firing pin is free to move. Just "pinning" the grip safety causes this pin to be permanently raised with causes the slide to not be removable. I just got into the habit of removing my grips and putting a piece of electrical tape around the grip safety on Friday night before a match. When I got ready to disassemble the gun I just cut the tape. To remove all this you would have to ..... 1) Remove the rear sight and remove the block from the firing pin channel. 2) Remove the pin from the frame. 3) Pin the grip safety Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 JFlowers has it right except that if you change the firing pin out you don't have to go through the sight removal portion of the procedure. I didn't want to have to re-sight in so I opted for just changing out the firing pin and removing the activator from the lower. You certainly do not have to pin your grip safety but, since the firing pin safety in no way interferes with the trigger on a Series II, it is the only reason I can think of to get rid of the fp safety. Well that and the old "I just don't want that extra crap in there" reason. -ld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 You don't need to remove the plunger lever if you make the swap for the series 70 firing pin either. Make sure you get the right kind of firing pin, though. Almost all of the .45ACP FPs on the market are for either series 80 or 70. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyG23 Posted October 7, 2004 Author Share Posted October 7, 2004 OK, next question, is there any difference in firing pins for 9mm as opposed to to .45 ? And if I understand all the replies so far I need a 70 series FP. Correct ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 OK, next question, is there any difference in firing pins for 9mm as opposed to to .45 ? Yes. 9mm/.38 super firing pins are small in diameter. The exception is Springfield Armory. They use the small diameter pins for their .45s too. Ed Brown makes a .45 firing pin specifically for Springfield. And if I understand all the replies so far I need a 70 series FP. Correct ?? Yep. I got one from Brownells. You have to get the 'no name' brand among the 1911 replacement parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyG23 Posted October 7, 2004 Author Share Posted October 7, 2004 Ok, I'll be looking at Brownells then. Hey Rhino, how is your 9mm Springfield doing since the trip to the gunsmith? My Kimber is 100% so far at the 300 round mark and seems to be plenty accurate to boot....maybe I got lucky for once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froglegs Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 as usual... I'm lost, why remove the safety stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Hey Rhino, how is your 9mm Springfield doing since the trip to the gunsmith? My Kimber is 100% so far at the 300 round mark and seems to be plenty accurate to boot....maybe I got lucky for once I really love it now! It went from being a dog to a definite keeper. It's a LOT more accurate now and it functions more smoothely as well. I did have a few hitches where it locked open prematurely, but I looked at the slide stop and realized I had loaded rounds bumping into it and slowing the slide and causing it to lock open. I had a guy remove some metal from the slide stop to put it within spec, and it has run like a champ since then. It's a pleasure to shoot the thing! I may even name it soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 as usual... I'm lost, why remove the safety stuff? One reason is that the safety stuff can cause problems with the gun going "bang." If you don't get the grip safety depressed absolutely all the way, all you will hear is a click. The trigger will move and the hammer will drop, but the firing pin block won't get out of the way. As with Series 80 safeties, there is also the potential for peening of the firing pin if it's not clearing the plunger 100% each time. That will eventually lead to a dead gun without any warning. The Swartz and Series 80 firing pin blocks are poorly executed solutions to non-existent problems that can induce unnecessary reliability problems. They might be more benign if 1911 manufacturers maintained tolerances the way SiGArms does, but that's just not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Buff Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 as usual... I'm lost, why remove the safety stuff? It is said to improve trigger quality and increase reliability. Have seen a Para with fp block jam when the gun was not held perfectly vertical. Could probably be fixed with a spring replacement, but we ripped the stuff out.... 'Bout the trigger improvements, I don't know - my Para still has all the safeties in, runs 100% and the trigger is as good as I like it. 'Bout grip safeties - I like and dislike 'em. Sometime grip too high and then it doesn't disengage, but I will not pin it...personal pref Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyG23 Posted October 8, 2004 Author Share Posted October 8, 2004 Froglegs, Rhino and Dead Buff pretty well covered it. On my gun, a 9mm Target II, if the grip safety is anything less than fully depressed you get a click when you expect a bang. As a recovering Glock shooter I'm having enough problems with safeties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 'Bout grip safeties - I like and dislike 'em. Sometime grip too high and then it doesn't disengage, but I will not pin it...personal pref Consider having a good pistolsmith "sensitize" the grip safety, i.e. take enough metal off the underside of the grip safety tongue inside the gun that it's still perfectly functional but will disengage with little inward movement. Thus you can have a functional grip safety but if you have any sort of real grip on the gun it'll go bang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 On my gun, a 9mm Target II, if the grip safety is anything less than fully depressed you get a click when you expect a bang. As a recovering Glock shooter I'm having enough problems with safeties Are you using the "IPSC grip" that rides the shooting hand thumb on top of the safety lever? One of the great things about this grip is it does away with the necessity to flick off the safety lever. Your hands meet, the safety comes off. Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyG23 Posted October 9, 2004 Author Share Posted October 9, 2004 Are you using the "IPSC grip" that rides the shooting hand thumb on top of the safety lever? One of the great things about this grip is it does away with the necessity to flick off the safety lever. Your hands meet, the safety comes off. Simple. I am using the "IPSC" grip but the thumb safety isn't giving me any trouble, only the grip safety and then only rarely. I've shot and carried Glocks for the past 8 or so years and recently decided to go to a 1911 for IDPA. Probably nothing wrong that a couple of thousand more rounds through the Kimber won't help cure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Burwell Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 Duane, With the Kimber grip safety/ FP safety you cannot "sensitize" like you can a series 70 or series 80 even. the grip safety has to be depressed enough to raise the fp stop. I understand some knowledgable smiths are able to tune this as well but from my understanding this can be hit and miss, as it is hard to get it the raise early but not raise too much. It is a difficult balance that on some guns cannot be achieved. The series 70 and 80 are easy to "sensitize" any smith should be capable and should only charge a few bucks. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froglegs Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 as usual... I'm lost, why remove the safety stuff? One reason is that the safety stuff can cause problems with the gun going "bang." If you don't get the grip safety depressed absolutely all the way, all you will hear is a click. The trigger will move and the hammer will drop, but the firing pin block won't get out of the way. As with Series 80 safeties, there is also the potential for peening of the firing pin if it's not clearing the plunger 100% each time. That will eventually lead to a dead gun without any warning. The Swartz and Series 80 firing pin blocks are poorly executed solutions to non-existent problems that can induce unnecessary reliability problems. They might be more benign if 1911 manufacturers maintained tolerances the way SiGArms does, but that's just not the case. Because kimber uses series 70 this doesn't count or does it? Also is this from a worn or poorly fit grip safety and do the basic safety/function checks detect this I shoot a kimber custom II just curious I'm still lost or just confused can't tell which Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 Because kimber uses series 70 this doesn't count or does it? Only the original Kimbers and the new anniversary editions are "series 70" in that they lack the firing pin block. Your Kimber Custom II has the Swartz-style firing pin block that is deactivated by depressing the grip safety (unless you removed it). Also is this from a worn or poorly fit grip safety and do the basic safety/function checks detect this It could be that, but it could be a few other things as well. Usually I would guess "tolerance stacking," where you have several interconnected parts that are at the acceptable extremes of their dimensions, and the combination prevents them from functioning together properly (e.g. all are undersized and don't "reach" properly). If your gun goes "bang!" every time, you don't have a problem. If you occasionally or frequently get a "click" instead of a bang, you should check to see if the firing pin block is working properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 Just another example of lawyer proofing an already good gun.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Duane,With the Kimber grip safety/ FP safety you cannot "sensitize" like you can a series 70 or series 80 even. the grip safety has to be depressed enough to raise the fp stop. I knew that. Actually the Kimber system can be "sensitized" but it may be more of a pain than with other systems, requiring replacement or building up of parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 "Tolerance stacking" really rears it's ugly head in this case. I have a Kimber with the Series II safety, and when I tried to fit a McCormick grip safety to the gun, I just couldn't get it to work with the firing pin block properly. I'm sure some judicious welding might have helped, but that is beyond my capabilities. I had a good smith fit an Ed Brown instead, and he had a lot of trouble getting it to work, but eventually it did. It's tempermental, though, and I have to be very careful when shooting strong hand only, or I get the ol' "click" instead of "bang." I think Kimber would have been better off licensing Colt's Series 80 system, given that they were obviously hell bent on doing SOME kind of firing pin block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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