Bob Hostetter Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I am just getting back into revolvers and have noticed that the current trend is towards ultra light hammers. Anyone care to share the idea behind this trend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogged Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Try this link: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=156858&hl=+bobbed%20+hammer#entry1754491 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hostetter Posted March 23, 2013 Author Share Posted March 23, 2013 Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBorland Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Bob - In a nutshell, a lighter hammer allows one to tune the action more aggressively (read: lighter trigger pull) before reliability becomes an issue. A lighter hammer also jars the muzzle less upon hammer strike, so you get a little accuracy bonus as well. Here's another thread on the matter: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=107539&hl=%2Bbobbing If you're interested in IDPA, better read this one, too: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=170812 Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty Hamby Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Like in golf. It's not about the power behind the head of the club. it is more about the speed at the club head. ie. momentum. Get that hammer accelerating faster off the sear. Once you lighten the main spring you loose acceleration and momentum. By reducing hammer mass, you gain back the momentum lost through the lighter main spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBorland Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Like in golf. It's not about the power behind the head of the club. it is more about the speed at the club head. ie. momentum. Get that hammer accelerating faster off the sear. Once you lighten the main spring you loose acceleration and momentum. By reducing hammer mass, you gain back the momentum lost through the lighter main spring. Negative. It's all about power, not momentum, and a lighter faster hammer has more power, less momentum. Momentum is good for moving things, like the muzzle when it hits the primer. Power is good for denting things, like the primer. It's a win/win. BTW, agolf ball doesn't travel as far as it does because of club momentum. It does so because of it's power, which actually compresses the golf ball, and it's the release of that compressed energy that really sends the ball flying. Likewise, kick a deflated football, and compare that to a fully-inflated football. Same momentum in the kicker's foot, but power in the former can't be converted into compressed energy, so momentum alone sends it only a few yards. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56hawk Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Any sources for lightened hammers, or does everyone just lighten their own? My 625 is at nine pounds right now, but I just ordered a spring kit from Wolff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hostetter Posted March 23, 2013 Author Share Posted March 23, 2013 Interesting, I wonder if it would be worthwhile to make some titanium hammers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcman Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Any sources for lightened hammers, or does everyone just lighten their own? My 625 is at nine pounds right now, but I just ordered a spring kit from Wolff. APEX carries a hammer, but it's costly. Most guys I know just cut them down. BUT, to get the best trigger- down in the 6lb range- it will take more than a carmonized hammer and a spring kit. Things have to be really smooth and slick inside, as little resistance as possible. If you're good with metal polishing you can probably do it well. It's really best to find a true revosmith to do it otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 One of the issues we had in the past with Titanium Hammers for 1911's was they would not keep the sear notch stoning. Had to touch them up every 5000 rounds or so, and after 20000 they seemed to start doubling even after stoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Griffin Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 One of the issues we had in the past with Titanium Hammers for 1911's was they would not keep the sear notch stoning. Had to touch them up every 5000 rounds or so, and after 20000 they seemed to start doubling even after stoning. Considering the amount of dryfire necessary to stay at a certain level that would be impossible to maintain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 One of the issues we had in the past with Titanium Hammers for 1911's was they would not keep the sear notch stoning. Had to touch them up every 5000 rounds or so, and after 20000 they seemed to start doubling even after stoning. Considering the amount of dryfire necessary to stay at a certain level that would be impossible to maintain. Of course, the double action trigger pull on a S&W revolver does not rely on a finely-dimensioned sear notch like a match-grade 1911 does. I think a Ti hammer might actually work in a revolver. Another theoretical option would be to install some kind of a roller sear made from hardened steel into a Ti hammer. I believe this will remain an academic discussion, since there is already an excellent product on the market (Randy's Apex hammer) that does the job very well, not to mention the fact that similar results can be obtained by simply lightening (yes, Carmonizing!) the existing stock hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COF Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Can I get an AMEN? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 (edited) I have a few Apex hammers installed and it seems like they have a slightly longer travel (cock back slightly farther). Edited March 25, 2013 by toothguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I have a few Apex hammers installed and it seems like they have a slightly longer travel (cock back slightly farther). Placebo effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBorland Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I have a few Apex hammers installed and it seems like they have a slightly longer travel (cock back slightly farther). Could be more of a sear length issue than a hammer issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I have a few Apex hammers installed and it seems like they have a slightly longer travel (cock back slightly farther). Could be more of a sear length issue than a hammer issue. If you look closely the sear disengages the hammer toward the end of the DA stroke and the lower ledge on the TRIGGER finishes the DA stroke. Randy does weld a little on some on the triggers on his really light trigger jobs. This increases the DA stroke and hammer travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 (edited) I have a few Apex hammers installed and it seems like they have a slightly longer travel (cock back slightly farther). Placebo effect. Short throw actions do not seem to be in vogue these days. The few that I've seen have been fairly heavy. Which of course makes perfect sense--if you reduce the arc of hammer travel, it's going to need more spring tension to get it moving fast enough to pop the primer. And if you're still required to pull the trigger all the way through its full range of travel, what benefit really comes from the hammer arc being shorter--for an action shooting gun, anyway? I'm curious if you lengthen the arc of hammer travel slightly (larger trigger cam) can you reduce the spring tension? Edited March 25, 2013 by toothguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBorland Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 If you look closely the sear disengages the hammer toward the end of the DA stroke and the lower ledge on the TRIGGER finishes the DA stroke. Dang - Yep - I flaked out & forget about the trigger cam. As you were... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56hawk Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 APEX carries a hammer, but it's costly. Most guys I know just cut them down. BUT, to get the best trigger- down in the 6lb range- it will take more than a carmonized hammer and a spring kit. Things have to be really smooth and slick inside, as little resistance as possible. If you're good with metal polishing you can probably do it well. It's really best to find a true revosmith to do it otherwise. APEX lists their hammers as out of stock, and they don't work on N frames anymore. Anyone you would recommend to do the work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 APEX carries a hammer, but it's costly. Most guys I know just cut them down. BUT, to get the best trigger- down in the 6lb range- it will take more than a carmonized hammer and a spring kit. Things have to be really smooth and slick inside, as little resistance as possible. If you're good with metal polishing you can probably do it well. It's really best to find a true revosmith to do it otherwise. APEX lists their hammers as out of stock, and they don't work on N frames anymore. Anyone you would recommend to do the work? My revolver guy is pretty good and reasonable.... shoot me a pm if you want his contact info. I've had several people finger my guns even some that owned apex and carmoney guns that were impressed. I also own two carmoney guns and have no problems putting my new guns up against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I would go with Clark Custom. That is now Jerry M.s family since he married Kay Clark a few years back. They know a little about revolvers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/revserv.htm#action Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I recommend Clark's shop regularly. And Frank Glenn in AZ also. Of course, I have always recommended Randy Lee highly, but that's not an option at the moment........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56hawk Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Thanks for the info on Clark's. I'll probably end up sending my 625 there, but in the mean time I'll mess around a bit with it myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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