My G20 only likes Bullseye + One Last Try

[Scott L]

How are you crimping? Seating and crimping in the same die? If so, have you tried a separate crimp die?

[Warhammer4k]

Separate steps. I've never liked the "seat and crimp in one step" setup.

Using a Hornady Lock-n-Load AP FWIW.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Warhammer4k

[Scott L]

I don't like Lee stuff but switching to their factory crimp die solved some feeding iissues with my 45. It sounds like I crimp a lot more than most which may or may not help. Kind of at a loss for what to tell you.

[FightFireJay]

To clarify, the feeding issue is ONLY With the LWD barrel?

[Warhammer4k]

To clarify, the feeding issue is ONLY With the LWD barrel?

Nope. I first noticed feeding problems with the LWD barrel because I was using it to shoot reloads (because it's easier on the brass). I switched back to the factory barrel, and have had exactly the same malfunctions.

Switching recoil springs (factory vs. 22 lb. aftermarket) also makes absolutely no difference.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Warhammer4k

[FightFireJay]

So the problem has been with both barrels in the past, but recently you shot the OEM barrel with factory ammo and reloads and it functioned flawlessly?

[FightFireJay]

Oops, can't edit my post for some reason. Anyway, OEM barrel and factory rounds feed fine but reloads still had problems?

Might check the rim and groove on your reloads, some firearms are pretty rough in that area. Just one more thing to eliminate.

[Warhammer4k]

Down-loaded reloads (10.0 gr. Blue Dot) didn't work either. Got exactly the same type of feed failure as shown above, on the 6th round in a magazine.

The brass is all Starline, previously reloaded, ery carefully screened for any irregularities in the brass (which isn't hard to do, since I hand-inspect every reload. I don't just toss them in a can right off the press.).

I give up. A gun which can only shoot factory ammo is useless to me.

[Scott L]

That sucks. Where are you located? Maybe you can get with somebody here that's also into the 10mm and might see something differently. Hate to see you sell a good pistol that you want to shoot and reload for.

[Warhammer4k]

ABQ, NM.

I'm not going to sell my 20 this time. As far as I can tell, my Glock 20 is 100% reliable with factory ammo, so it at least has some use for self-defense and possibly as a hunting sidearm (I did in fact employ it as such when going after feral hogs this spring). It won't cost me anything to keep it, so keep it I shall.

Meanwhile, for all my 10mm shooting needs, I have a couple of S&W 10-series autoloaders, and a 610 revolver. It's disappointing that the world's only double-stack, full-size 10mm handgun* won't work for me.

*The 10mm EAA/Tangfolio Witness doesn't count. I owned one for less than a month - its slide cracked after less than 400 rounds.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Warhammer4k

[SAFuchs]

I've had a fist Gen 20 since they came out, fired factory, reloads, lead, copper, blazer just about everything and the few feeding issues were with Sacco 200grn lead. My favorite load was with 452 AA (sadly all gone now) but have used #5, #2, WSL, WST, N320 and now 231. You may have to make this into a science project, go with what you know works and replace one thing at a time and log the results. Have you analyzed each miss feed to see if they are in the same position ETC. Talk about a gremlin...

[Warhammer4k]

There are several aspects of this problem that defy explanation, but one in particular is how some of the misfeeds get off-center (see photo on pg. 1). I don't understand how that's physically possible. Cartridges are going to be aligned with the bore axis as they come out of the magazine. How in the world is anything pushing them to one side, as in the photo?

[kevin c]

Weird stuff.

Your last comment opens up some new ways of looking at the problem. Not to say for sure, but:

Could you have the wrong extractor in the gun, or possibly something wrong with the bearing/plunger/spring set up?

Is the frame OK, specifically the rails - no damage/cracks?

Is the locking block cracked?

Is the slide lock and its spring installed correctly?

[Scott L]

Could you have the wrong extractor in the gun, or possibly something wrong with the bearing/plunger/spring set up?

I missed the angled round issue, but looking at it again I'd start here. Typically with 1911 feeding issues I assume extractor issues first, typically wrong angles, crappy finish, or too tight.

[Warhammer4k]

Note: Threads merged here. - Admin.

I've had a very unsatisfying history with the Glock 20 and attempts to reload for it. In summary:

-I've owned two different Glock 20's, one a regular (purchased ca. 2007), one the SF variant (purchased 2010).

-The only thing they've had in common is the same Lone Wolf Distributors replacement barrel. It is the same length as the factory barrel. I bought it so I could shoot cast lead without any question of safety, and because the chamber supports the 10mm case better, so that brass doesn't get worked so hard in each reloading cycle.

-Despite every combination of powder (AA #9, AA#7, Bullseye, Blue Dot, IMR 800X, probably one other I'm forgetting), bullets (cast lead, plated, jacketed, weights from 165 to 220 gr.), brass (Starline, Federal, and Winchester), springs (both original and a 22 lb. recoil spring), primers (Winchester, CCI, Federal #150 and #155), COAL (anywhere from 1.240" to 1.270"), you name it, the gun just WILL NOT WORK with reloads.

The only thing all these failures seem to have in common is the Lone Wolf replacement barrel. It's true that the gun also does not work using reloads with the factory barrel, but I generally avoid using the factory barrel because it Glocks the brass (i.e. bulged case heads).

I have always reloaded 10mm ammo rather than buy it. I bought the first Glock 20 with the idea of shooting primarily reloads. I sold that gun after several frustrating months of trying to get it to use reloads. I assumed it must simply be defective. With the second Glock 20 (SF model), I was given about 400 rounds of Federal 10mm JHPs, and I have run enough through it (300+ rounds) to convince myself that the gun runs perfectly with factory ammuniton.

Would a new replacement barrel, perhaps a KKM or Storm Lake, have any chance of fixing this problem?

The malfunctions are always failures to feed which look something like this:

Because the Lone Wolf barrel does have a tighter chamber than the Glock barrel, in addition to having more case support, I carefully case gage every reload I make. Those that fit easily in the case gage drop loosely into the Lone Wolf chamber, as one would expect. But as you can see in the photo, these cartridges don't even make it far enough into the chamber for any bulging to come into play. Somehow they are sliding up the feed ramp and getting stuck against the chamber roof.

I'm quite literally at the last option. I've tried everything else I can possibly imagine to get a Glock 20 running with reloads. I even bought an EAA Witness at one point because I was so frustrated with the Glock 20 not working (and boy was that a mistake!). There simply is not another double-stack 10mm pistol in existence, so it's this or nothing.

The reloads that continually fail to work in the Glock 20 will feed and fire all day long in my S&W 1006 and 1066, which is why I think I'm having a gun or barrel problem, and not a reload problem.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Flexmoney

[buddy_fuentes]

Glock prefection? If you are having the same issues with the stock barrel and the Lone Wolf, but your ammo will fire in several other pistols, you have a problem with your pistol. For some reason it doesn't like your reloads. I would suggest trying some dummys loaded out long and some loaded short (remember that this will increase pressure in live rounds) to see if that works. I would make couple of dummy rounds with lead projectiles and color the brass with a marker to see if hand cycling will work and if there are any marks on the bullet or case. Since you have tried lead, plated, and jacketed without positive results, either you gun or your magazines may require a different length.

I've been reloading for well over forty years and rarely find a gun that is at fault when relaods are involved. It is usually the reload that is causing the problem. If we were neighbors, I think I could make that gun shoot for you. Best of luck......

[redial]

No idea what's wrong there - my standard G20 shoots anything, every time and well! If you decide to ditch the barrel, I'd be interested since most of what I shoot is lead and I like the tighter chamber for brass longevity.

Mark

[wgj3]

Agree that its something with your ammo. Could be as "simple" as bullet profile and/or OAL. LOOKS like it could be that the bullet is hitting the top of the chamber in such a fashion that creates too much friction. Jhp's that worked had a round profile and the jacket creates less friction than the softer lead. Before scrapping it, try diff OAL (thinking shorter to start with) and maybe a diff bullet profile.

[SNW500Magnum]

I had the same issues with my Glock 29. No issues with factory loads. Started to reload using KKM 10mm barrel. Just couldn't get anything to cycle. FTF, FTE, slide wouldn't lock. Put the 29 away, bought a Kimber 10mm, no problems. Found a Delta Elite, no problems.

Finally got stubborn and decided I was going to figure this out.

Bought a conversion barrel in .357 SIG, couldn't get it to function consistently.

Bought a .40 conversion barrel, same issues I had with the .10mm.

Here's how I fixed it.

Make sure the resizing die is setup to factory standard.

I use Berry's round shoulder 155 or 180.

Use a heavy taper crimp. Use moderate to heavy loads so the slide functions well.

Once I got this to work, I bought a Glock 20, functions without issue with Glock factory and KKM conversion .40

[Warhammer4k]

This is a Montana Gold 180 gr. CMJ bullet, and it's what I've been using for the last thousand or so 10mm reloads. I get malfunctions just as shown above. I'm planning to go shoot some of them tomorrow & take photos of the malfunctions.

(The previous photo of a malfunction stars a reload using a 220 gr. plated bullet over 10.0 gr. Blue Dot, but the bullet profile, and principle, are the same as with the Montana Gold.)

A gunsmith who apparently has a lot of experience customizing Glock 20's got in touch with me via another forum and is trying to help me. I'm hopeful that something will come out of it. I'd even be willing to eat the cost of overnight shipping, to have him work on the gun. That's how badly I want to be able to shoot reloads in my Glock 20. It's really my only option for a double-stack 10mm.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Could be the magazine ... if you have another mag, try that.

What velocity are you getting with your reloads? Looks like you might be

a little light for the gun.

I'd also try the "barrel plunking " trick - take barrel out of gun, drop cartridges

into chamber and make sure they enter and exit very easily.

Really frustrating when there are so many variables, isn't it?

Good luck.

[Flexmoney]

I merged these threads (starting at post #40), to avoid having to cover much of the same Q&A over this issue. - Admin.

[Atlgentlegiant]

Have you tried doing some polishing on the LWD barrel? On my KKM barrel on a G35 I was having a lot of issues until I used some Mother's wheel polish on a patch wrapped around a Glock brush to polish things up. Chucked the brush in a drill and gave it a "whirl". It helped a lot.

[Warhammer4k]

If the Lone Wolf barrel needs polishing, so does my Glock barrel, because I have exactly the same malfunctions with the latter.

It certainly isn't an issue of insufficient power. Most recently I've been loading the 180 gr. Montana Gold CMJ bullets over 11.0 grains Blue Dot and a Federal #150 primer, seated approx. 1.255" COAL, for an average velocity of 1200 ft/s. This is as hot as I can safely get - it is a maximum load. Yet the gun won't work.

I have ten mags for the Glock 20 and I'm pretty sure the malfunctions happen with every single one of them. I'm going to test that hypothesis today at the range - I bet I'll have at least one misfeed with every magazine. I'll post results later.

[Warhammer4k]

Same-old-same-old, but...I kept careful track of which mags were in when I had malfunctions. I took the ones that fed all 15 rounds successfully and loaded them and fired them again. Six out of ten magazines got through two full loads (30 rounds each) without any misfeeds.

When the gun started jamming, I removed that magazine and transferred its cartridges to a different magazine, since there isn't any point in continuing to shoot with a magazine that I know doesn't work.

It was a lot of shooting, around 180 shots.

I'll have to run a third, maybe a fourth and fifth, complete cycle with each magazine before I'm satisfied they really work.

I purchased all ten magazines at the same time, brand new, and I have been having misfeeds with reloads from day one. So whatever the problem is, it was there at the start. So far I've been unable to identify any visible differences whatsoever between the "good" and "bad" magazines.

The next step is to clean all magazines, and carefully compare "good" with "bad" mags.