craigsteffek Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 All right i need an open shotgun and have a relitively small budget. My options are 930 Flanigain, Akdal, or Saiga. I can get each of these right now for 650 OTD and then i would need to start modifing them. So my question is Which would be the better choice the 930 rhythm or the akdal basic conversion done by me. Then mags for the akdal or speed loaders for the 930. Thanks for your help in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 The AKDAL since its detachable mag fed. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 For an open gun, its really either magfed or xrail. If I ever go open for 3 gun im going with the xrail as I like shooting a more conventional style shotgun where I can use a bead and have a good cheekweld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gose Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 You might be better off to just get the Firebird 922 conversion they sell through Centerfire, since youre going to have to replace pretty much all the same parts to get 922 compliant anyway. The final price might be pretty close to doing it yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigsteffek Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 i was looking into an xrail down the road if i go with the tube gun. I do like the idea of the akdal but i am alittle worried about the reliability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigsteffek Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 Looking at doing it myself will be 25 for the trigger 25 for the hammer and 35 for the pistion.That plus 650 for the gun so I am at 735 for a converted gun versus 1199 from centerfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9X23Guy Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Cheap and Open anything do not go together. I would maybe look at another class to start off with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Cheap and Open anything do not go together. I would maybe look at another class to start off with. Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DyNo! Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Cheap and Open anything do not go together. I would maybe look at another class to start off with. Exactly! If you put something together that even functions, it won't be competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gose Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) Looking at doing it myself will be 25 for the trigger 25 for the hammer and 35 for the pistion.That plus 650 for the gun so I am at 735 for a converted gun versus 1199 from centerfire. Cool, I thought the parts were more expensive. However, replacing only three would still get you 11 or 12 parts (the only ATF letter Ive seen says 14 parts, but doesnt seem to be accurate since it doesnt count stock/grip, which would get you to 15) if youre using factory mags, right? Edited November 8, 2012 by gose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigsteffek Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 The trigger is the trigger and disconnector which is two parts and the hammer would be the 3rd with the gas pistion and the trigger kit i would be down to 10 parts. That is with using factory mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Is this for a particular match or 3Gun in general? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigsteffek Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 nope just moving from tac optic to open got the pistol and rifle now just need a new shotgun will be shooting texas multigun and a few club matches each month and looking for inputs on shotguns. Cheap was not the best way to title this. I was more or less looking for the pros and cons of say an open tube gun versus the akdal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gose Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 The trigger is the trigger and disconnector which is two parts and the hammer would be the 3rd with the gas pistion and the trigger kit i would be down to 10 parts. That is with using factory mags. Under the assumption that the Akdal only has 14 parts? Personally, Id consider it to have 15 parts, unless you have a letter from ATF in your name saying 14, just to be safe. I switched to Open this season when the Akdal came out, since I had no interest in a Saiga or tube gun and so far I love it. You cant go wrong with an Akdal There are still some rough edges here and there, but hopefully all that will be resolved in time for next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigsteffek Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 cool thanks for all the help and I have a copy of the atf letter from Saiga-12 that states there are 14 parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark R Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Cheaper Than Dirt has the 1919 for $579 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gose Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 cool thanks for all the help and I have a copy of the atf letter from Saiga-12 that states there are 14 parts. Well, as always with ATF letters, theyre really only good if theyre in your name. Unfortunately, if they suddenly decide that the Akdal has 15 parts, that letter isnt going to offer any protection. but you probably already knew that, so back on topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nheiny13 Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Check out the Firebird Saiga in the classifieds right now. Awesome open shotgun for a smoking price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 i was looking into an xrail down the road if i go with the tube gun. I do like the idea of the akdal but i am alittle worried about the reliability. X rail guns can be finicky too. No matter what open gun you get it will take more TLC to get to know what it needs to be reliable. My R&R Saiga runs like a champ now that I have figured out the ammo it likes and the maintance schedule it needs. I have seen plenty of tube guns have issues as well in Open. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traviswilson Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Cheap and Open anything do not go together. I would maybe look at another class to start off with. Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gose Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 i was looking into an xrail down the road if i go with the tube gun. I do like the idea of the akdal but i am alittle worried about the reliability. X rail guns can be finicky too. No matter what open gun you get it will take more TLC to get to know what it needs to be reliable. My R&R Saiga runs like a champ now that I have figured out the ammo it likes and the maintance schedule it needs. I have seen plenty of tube guns have issues as well in Open. Pat Currently, the Akdal isnt any less reliable than a Saiga or XRail. They are all somewhat finicky and need some TLC to run well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THM7 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 If you take a look at the Nov 2012 issue of Gun Test they did a review of the Akdal, Saiga IZ-107, the Kel-Tec Bullpup (pump) and a Red Jacket Short Barrel S12 (Which you would not want fot 3gun regardless) Anyway....stock out of the box the Saiga was the most reliable. I shoot a converted Saiga and it has been very, very, reliable...if you do not go crazy with shorting barrel/gas sys...adding comps etc....it is pretty trouble free. Just clean the gas system on a regular basis....nothing against the Akdal but I have seen them have serious issues at the matches at Rio Salado, AZ....to the point I decided to hold off until things get worked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tactica Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Open is like Formula 1, it's custom, it's bleeding edge, it requires a deep knowledge of what you are using, commitment into learning how it runs, a willingness to get your hands dirty and tune / fix a part here or there, and a fair amount of TLC and maintenance to keep them performing at the high tight tolerances. It's also increadibly fun when you get it all working. If you are shooting Open, look at your motiviation. I typically see three groups. Those would be senior folks who's eyes / physique have gone, then folks who like to tinker / smith / experiment and then those who want to go fast and be competitve. If you just like to tinker and don't care about being competitive, then anything you picked will work once you are done tuning it. If you want to go fast, then stay away from manual loading on traditional tube system unless you really practice it a lot... However, I've seen more than one individual light a course up with a traditional shotgun while manual loading, but they have the loading down to a science. The lightning fast reloaders tend to be the exception and not the rule. However, if skillsets are the same and no malfuctions on either platform... then the best tube gun is never going to stand up to a top performing open gun on a long course. If you want to spend the cash and get the higher end, you are looking at fully integrated xrail Benelli M2 with race gun modifications, firebird fully race tuned Akdal with $140 ea firebird mags, the R&R Saiga fully custom open... if you are trending with the common school of thought. No matter which of the latter three you look at, you are in the $2500 to $3500 range by the time you are done. If you try to do one of the latter on the cheap, and not get all of the options, chances are, you are in for plenty of maintenance and troubleshooting. That's not saying you cannot do it cheaper, but the learning curve and troubleshooting phase to learn what the designers already learned in each of those systems may be costly and slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THM7 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) edit Edited November 12, 2012 by THM7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THM7 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Minus the Red Dot this is around $1200 (parts only...you need to do the work). Totally reliable....you could cut the cost by forgoing the folder, extended mag release, poly choke..etc And the guys who say they are unreliable and need constant tweaking do not know what they are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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