What can we do to make USPSA grow?

[h4444]

My fervent hope is that the hot up and comers get a wife, mortgage and kids before they start making me look really bad

That seems to slow most of em down....

YUP, that's what slowed me down.....I had a goal of making master by 30,,,set that goal right after winning my B card in an area match at 28 years old....shortly after that my first child was born. That was 9 years ago, and I'm still a B card holder and have only shot about 4 classifiers since setting that goal over the last 9 years and those were shot back in 03 and 04. Then I had a 5 to 6 year gap of ZERO matches.

But, I'm shooting some now. So I've bump my goal out to 40 years old and I'm 37 now, and we're done having kids, so I think I may have a punchers chance at getting there...

Byron

[ctay]

Another group that is somewhat left out in the cold are the "family men/women". I missed the last 5 years shooting all together as we starting our family. I now have 3 kids 4 yrs - 9 yrs old. I CAN'T be stuck at a range for 5+ hours at at time during the middle of the day,,,regardless of the day.

Wish I had a FaceBook style "like" button for posts like this. This is exactly my situation as well. Lucky for me I shoot at a club that allows us to drive our vehicles right up to the stage. I drive the minivan and pack my kiddos in the back with a movie and some snacks. They spend the majority of the match in the car but I bring eyes and ears for them to help with the setup and tear down. They LOVE to go shooting with me and my wife can deal with my shooting absence as long as she doesn't have to manage all the kids alone. The other guys on the range are patient and always nice to the kids - that makes everything work so well.

That said - I can't devote as much time to the match as I would like. I usually try to come early to setup or stay late to take down but never both. Time and money are what it takes to do hobbies like this and young families usually don't have much of either.

[BillD]

My fervent hope is that the hot up and comers get a wife, mortgage and kids before they start making me look really bad

That seems to slow most of em down....

YUP, that's what slowed me down.....I had a goal of making master by 30,,,set that goal right after winning my B card in an area match at 28 years old....shortly after that my first child was born. That was 9 years ago, and I'm still a B card holder and have only shot about 4 classifiers since setting that goal over the last 9 years and those were shot back in 03 and 04. Then I had a 5 to 6 year gap of ZERO matches.

But, I'm shooting some now. So I've bump my goal out to 40 years old and I'm 37 now, and we're done having kids, so I think I may have a punchers chance at getting there...

Byron

I hear ya, seen it happen more than once. I never got the luxury of doing it before I had kids. I didn't start shooting IDPA until about 99 and didnt start USPSA until 2008. Now I'm 57, got the time, spend way too much money on the sport and realize my best years for shooting are behind me.

You've still got lotsa time left with good reflexes, sharp brain and good eyes.

[h4444]

My fervent hope is that the hot up and comers get a wife, mortgage and kids before they start making me look really bad

That seems to slow most of em down....

YUP, that's what slowed me down.....I had a goal of making master by 30,,,set that goal right after winning my B card in an area match at 28 years old....shortly after that my first child was born. That was 9 years ago, and I'm still a B card holder and have only shot about 4 classifiers since setting that goal over the last 9 years and those were shot back in 03 and 04. Then I had a 5 to 6 year gap of ZERO matches.

But, I'm shooting some now. So I've bump my goal out to 40 years old and I'm 37 now, and we're done having kids, so I think I may have a punchers chance at getting there...

Byron

I hear ya, seen it happen more than once. I never got the luxury of doing it before I had kids. I didn't start shooting IDPA until about 99 and didnt start USPSA until 2008. Now I'm 57, got the time, spend way too much money on the sport and realize my best years for shooting are behind me.

You've still got lotsa time left with good reflexes, sharp brain and good eyes.

Reflexes.......check

good eyes.....check

sharp brain...hmmm

good knees....not so much. I'm on borrowed time there with my right side wheel.

I bet if club members dug through the memory banks and match records, you could find a TON of people this is applicable.

With a little database work, I wonder if it is possible to figure out potential recruits through expired memberships.

Why not reach out to those people as ask, "Hey, why aren't you shooting anymore?" I bet you'd find a lot of people this applied too.

I'm not saying the whole shooting world should drop what they are doing to get these people back out/shooting again, but you may have pockets enough of them to find enough people that could drive/administer/support an occasional unconventionally scheduled match.....like late afternoon/early evenings and such.

These would be the ideal people to go after. They've been in the sport before and are likely to stick given the right schedule/circumstances.

Byron

Edited September 11, 2012 by h4444

[Flexmoney]

You guys in the last few posts...

Are you shooting Steel Challenge? Family friendly. Knee friendly. Setup and tear-down are quick. etc.

[Atlgentlegiant]

USPSA really needs to find a way to get some "product placement" on shows like Top Shot, Hot Shots, etc. where the web site URL and such could be in the credits or more talk about USPSA on the show. Especially on Top Shot as it has a wider audience. USPSA is mentioned in passing but no further information.

[BillD]

USPSA really needs to find a way to get some "product placement" on shows like Top Shot, Hot Shots, etc. where the web site URL and such could be in the credits or more talk about USPSA on the show. Especially on Top Shot as it has a wider audience. USPSA is mentioned in passing but no further information.

Look what 3 gun Nation has done for Multi/3 gun.

USPSA is missing the boat BIGTIME by not having a regular TV show that has several top shooters, as in Hot Shots.

I'm still trying to figure out why it hasn't happened. I bet we could double the amount of people at matches.

Of course, we still don't have ranges that can handle 120 people for a club match.

[BritinUSA]

I don't think we need TV... we can reach just as large an audience (if not bigger) on the internet.

Putting a show together and getting the word out about it is going to be the issue.

[shameless plug] Look for live coverage of the US-IPSC Nationals starting Friday at LiveShots [/shameless plug]

[BillD]

I don't think we need TV... we can reach just as large an audience (if not bigger) on the internet.

Putting a show together and getting the word out about it is going to be the issue.

[shameless plug] Look for live coverage of the US-IPSC Nationals starting Friday at LiveShots [/shameless plug]

I disagree. One can look at USPSA's top GMs on Youtube all day long. You put it on TV and it goes from a fringe sport to mainstream.

I think we need a TV show that EXPLAINS to the unitiated what is going on, why people shoot like they do and from where they do. Maybe some segments on stage breakdown and of course, the guns used.

I think it would be great if we could draw crowds to watch USPSA like the exhibition shooters of the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

A multigun series was started locally this year, run at 2 different clubs.

They had over 80 shooters their FIRST match.

IMO, a lot of shooters where there due to 3 Gun Nation.

[ctay]

Actually that is not a bad idea. Kind of a "what is USPSA all about" video series. Make it fun and basic - give people an understanding of the sport. I bet something like this already exists - just not digital. Many things we take for granted about the sport are not universally known. That could go all over youtube and more importantly on the front page of USPSA.org. I have some other ideas on the USPSA website but that is another thread.

[h4444]

You guys in the last few posts...

Are you shooting Steel Challenge? Family friendly. Knee friendly. Setup and tear-down are quick. etc.

Would love too and that is a great idea. It is something I literally looked into over the weekend, but it looks like I'm back to the 5+ hrs in the middle of the day problem again....

Heck, I wouldn't even mind some pin shoots.....haven't been to one of those in AGES. Although my last pin shoot ended in funny story,,,,if you were an observer. It ended in pain for me.

So, I'm probably going to be shooting these 3/4 stage Thursday night matches for a while then maybe a couple bigger matches per year kind of thing.

One of the challenges I have and may be making some progress on is getting the wife to the range. It isn't so much that she's anti gun....she's not, she's got a thing about loud noises. I made a mistake and took her to an indoor range for the first trip and of course there were somebody shooting hand artillery in there, so that wasn't a good experience. I need to get her out to an outdoor range.

Two of the kids are still too young for the time being,,,,,so it'll be a while yet before I stand a chance of getting them all hooked on the sport. LOL.

Honestly, I feel blessed to have the Thursday night shooting available. Were it not for that, I'd still be 100% on the sidelines. The formula offered in these Thursday night matches is just about perfect.

Short time span, in the evenings, close by, and etc.

[BritinUSA]

One of the challenges I have and may be making some progress on is getting the wife to the range. It isn't so much that she's anti gun....she's not, she's got a thing about loud noises. I made a mistake and took her to an indoor range for the first trip and of course there were somebody shooting hand artillery in there, so that wasn't a good experience. I need to get her out to an outdoor range.

Did she 'double-plug'? Women are more sensitive to high-frequency sounds, the shots will sound louder to her than they do to you.

[h4444]

One of the challenges I have and may be making some progress on is getting the wife to the range. It isn't so much that she's anti gun....she's not, she's got a thing about loud noises. I made a mistake and took her to an indoor range for the first trip and of course there were somebody shooting hand artillery in there, so that wasn't a good experience. I need to get her out to an outdoor range.

Did she 'double-plug'? Women are more sensitive to high-frequency sounds, the shots will sound louder to her than they do to you.

Double plugged....But, Mr. 44 Mag on the left and Mr. 500 Mag on the right didn't help with the nice concussion you get indoors. I screwed up by taking her indoors. I've been shooting on indoor ranges forever so I don't even notice....

Next time out, I am going to take her to an outdoor range, only issue is, I'm not a member of any of the local outdoor ranges.....need to cure that. :-)

[lef-t]

Actually that is not a bad idea. Kind of a "what is USPSA all about" video series. Make it fun and basic - give people an understanding of the sport. I bet something like this already exists - just not digital. Many things we take for granted about the sport are not universally known. That could go all over youtube and more importantly on the front page of USPSA.org. I have some other ideas on the USPSA website but that is another thread.

Shooting USA on Outdoor Channel regularly features USPSA matches and other action shooting sports. They did a great feature on USPSA including the different divisions, scoring, and basic stage breakdown.

[mwx40x40]

Not allow non-USPSA members in Level II/III matches. Saw it this weekend.

Are you sure the "non-USPSA members" didn't file a paid application to the MD at the same time they registered as allowed by 6.4.1?

I agree it's a minor issue. As far as paid application , I don't think so. His only comment was they took my money.Maybe he enjoyed his big match experience so much, he will join later. Only reason I even mentioned it here, is that at our local matches almost 50% of the shooters are non-USPSA. But once they get hooked on the sport, I try to entice them to join so they can come experience the big match (Level II/III) experience.

[JetPow]

I can see some Range Master and ROs are rude, acting like they own the place. Some yelling to shooters. I hope the NROI would do something on this kind of attitude.

[pjb45]

Who goes to places that don't make you feel welcomed?

There are lots of good points made in these posts: publicity, cost, time, equipment.

The bottom line comes to the match and the people at the match. This is what makes the difference if someone comes to a match the first time and continues come to matches.

Fortunately, for quite a while I traveled to many different locations. I was able to shoot in a variety of matches. Almost every place I was able to find folks that approached me as a new shooter to their match. I remember vividly one club, when I showed up for the first time. I felt shoned, not one person acted like I should be there. Luckily, there were other matches in this area and I was welcomed at those matches. The funny part was everyone in the other clubs knew about the 'unfriendly' club. It was a local anomaly.

Just to beat a horse to death:

I saw something about Tuesday Night Steel at Rio Salado many years ago. I called some guy name Gary B. He was friendly, encouraging etc. I went to my first match, 'i run with what I brung' had a great time. I made a lot of friends at this club. It started me on shooting USPSA.

People make the difference.

I was walking with some woman named Kippi, who saw a woman shooter she did not recognize. She immediately went to her and introduced herself. This is what it takes to grow a membership. Just look to see what Kippi, Julie, et. Al., have done for Women in USPSA.

[Sin-ster]

I spoke with a gentleman the other day who was shocked to hear just how many local matches we have in the area, as he had looked "everywhere" and not found mention of them. And this dude was a "firearms TV show" addict, according to our conversation.

For whatever reason, folks apparently aren't even going to the USPSA.org site to find local clubs in their area. Imagine the exposure that a plug here and there during these shows would create...

I'm definitely on board with the TV idea. I look good on camera, after all...

[h4444]

I spoke with a gentleman the other day who was shocked to hear just how many local matches we have in the area, as he had looked "everywhere" and not found mention of them. And this dude was a "firearms TV show" addict, according to our conversation.

For whatever reason, folks apparently aren't even going to the USPSA.org site to find local clubs in their area. Imagine the exposure that a plug here and there during these shows would create...

I'm definitely on board with the TV idea. I look good on camera, after all...

We probably need to start more groups on Facebook. Kentucky Shooters has a group that we all post to/use and it is a great community. Guys maintain schedules or matches that are within driving distance, share information, post results, videos (shooting related), ideas,,,,it is a great community to be a part of. I would encourage more of that as well. Get them plugged into USPSA.org to find clubs and such and once we have people in the clubs, get them plugged in with people locally through social media.

[Atlgentlegiant]

Actually that is not a bad idea. Kind of a "what is USPSA all about" video series. Make it fun and basic - give people an understanding of the sport. I bet something like this already exists - just not digital. Many things we take for granted about the sport are not universally known. That could go all over youtube and more importantly on the front page of USPSA.org. I have some other ideas on the USPSA website but that is another thread.

Shooting USA on Outdoor Channel regularly features USPSA matches and other action shooting sports. They did a great feature on USPSA including the different divisions, scoring, and basic stage breakdown.

The problem with this is that Outdoor Channel is not part of the "non premium" package for most cable and sat providers. In my case with Direct TV I would have to have the "Everything" package to get it. Top Shot and Hot Shots are on channels that are part of the lower tier of channels.

[Big_G]

Know your audience, know the tools you've got, have a good mission statement and core values.

Then the tough questions must be asked: Do the members want it to grow?

What kind of growth?

I think there's a great deal of wide open space in terms of increasing membership and being more focused on the "Customers" (the members). The USPSA appeals to me because it is raw. There is opportunity here.

My family and I are new to the USPSA. I can tell you from my perspective that the presence of the USPSA on the internet is outdated. The website is antiquated. In my Area finding matches is not easy; there's a great deal more questions than there are answers and for a new shooter coming in off the street this is daunting.

Considering that new members are: new to firearms. This is seemingly insignificant to most shooters, but to the new shooter picking up a firearm that all of the civilized world is telling them is an evil tool of satan himself capable of instant mass death, IT IS DUANTING.

Providing more detailed and high quality information allows the new shooter to digest and visualize what it is he or she is about to do. Does the information provided on the interent paint an accurate picture in an outsiders mind of each of the 5W's in high resolution detail?

Simply saying to ourselves, "Here are the match rules, safety rules, and our [hard to understand] Calendar" is not enough. The message is not getting out to the gun owning public in a way that inspires them to join the USPSA and participate.

USPSA has to explain the 5W's in detail, and in a user friendly, encouraging way. On top of all that it has to be fun - the experience has to be fun. Performing poorly is not fun, especially if the shooter feels the poor performance was due in part to missing information he or she could have had but didn't have because it wasn't readily available in a manner familiar and easy to obtain.

From looking at the various USPSA Area pages, some areas are much better than others at sharing information.

I can imagine that maybe the USPSA doesnt want to discourage the small clubs from participating by chastising clubs for poor customer service. But without some accountability to the organization and to the consumer the organization will fail. Standards and practices of how the USPSA clubs conduct the customer service especially on the interenet must improve.

There are many people passionate about shooting, but mostly those organization remain giant duanting question marks to the outsider. Fewer and fewer people shoot and that is not a good thing.

Shooting USA, magazine publications, and the USPSA interent presence do a decent job of illustrating a big picture of USPSA. But the details are like static on an old TV. People just turn it off. The websites for the USPSA aren't done well, the USPSA Area web sites are even worse.

I don't have much experience shooting USPSA matches, I'm still an outsider trying to crack the code on how to find qualifiers and useful points of contact in the clubs in my region; though I've been a USPSA member for two years.

At work, I have planned and conducted some of the largest military competitive marksmanship matches in the Western US for the last 4 years. Matches that span several days with around 100 competitors. We have teams flying in from Guam, Hawaii, Utah, Colorado, Nevada, and Arizona to compete. One thing I've learned is that shooters *HATE* to sit around waiting to shoot. So our matches have events running concurrently, and many short events so that if you've got 15 minutes to kill you can fit a short stage in before another stage. I guess what I'm trying to say is that having lots of short stages beat a few big ones. I've shot the MGM Ironman and had a blast.

[splashdown]

Shooting USA is a good place to see the sport. But I just hate how they say that Open or Limited guns have an advantage over the production guns. They never explain that they're not competing with each other. That probably turns people off right there.

"Wow that fancy gun with the scope and all them holes sure looks 'spensive. I cain't be doin' all that."

We've got too many shooters at our matches most of the time. Some clubs get 100+ shooters a couple of times per season. One range even started a second club at the same facility so they could have matches during the week. I fear that if more ranges began hosting USPSA matches, it would be the same core group of die-hards filling the new place as well. I don't think it would drop match attendance much. If all you care about is shooting, you spend 6 or 7 hours at the range shooting 7 stages for a total trigger time of about 2 minutes. At least I also enjoy officiating as much as shooting.

I'll have to say that Steel Challenge is where it's at. I'm excited to hear how the proposed classification system will work. I've only shot a few matches, but what I really like are the rimfire categories. It's just a blast. More trigger time, cheaper ammo, and faster than USPSA - no 5 min walk through, and a quick spritz of paint resets the stage for the next shooter, no taping targets in the rain. All a major plus.

[dbooksta]

Found this topic thanks to Byron's mention in his article in the current Front Sight.

Here's why my USPSA membership is going to lapse: I Emailed the following suggestion to the local match director.

I joined and shot my first USPSA match last month at my local club. I had been told by fellow members to expect it to be over by noon, but with 14 shooters per squad I didn’t finish shooting the last stage until 2:30PM.

My wife and I balance fulltime jobs and two small children. Consequently I can’t justify abandoning them for half a Saturday to play a sport they can’t even attend.

This morning I went to shoot the monthly match at my club, but as the squad sizes swelled past 14 I had to give up the idea and just go home.

Can you please make this sport more accessible to shooters with limited time by breaking matches into multiple cycles/chalks/events/groups? There is an optimal squad size to keep things moving, and it is certainly less than 14. No more than half a dozen competitors can go down range after each round to score, tape, and reset the course, so why not offer multiple starting times for matches once more than 6 competitors per stage have signed up?

I understand there is more to a match than shooting. Those who have the time and interest can still stay from setup to cleanup. In fact, if I didn’t have to wait in overloaded squads for every single competitor to shoot I could contribute more to preparation or cleanup, instead of showing up right as registration closes and running back to my other commitments as soon as I finish shooting the last stage. Also, if multiple cycles were offered I might be able to get my wife to shoot one while I watch the kids, and then tag in to shoot while she babysits.

So long as this sport requires unnecessary and open-ended time commitments it’s going to be dominated by single adults and families with older/grown children. Please consider reorganizing matches to make participation more accessible to the rest of us.

He responded with a sneering Email about how much time he devotes to the sport, and suggested that if I can't build my schedule around USPSA as currently run that I find a different sport. (As if that weren't enough, apparently he found my suggestion so ridiculous that he circulated it with his clique, one of whom broadcast a disparaging Email about my lack of commitment to this club's mailing list.)

Perhaps in areas where USPSA is dominated by self-righteous fanatics like these, the rest of us should start a separate family-friendly (and respectful) IPSC group, like the one Byron Hall describes finding in Kentucky?

[BillD]

Found this topic thanks to Byron's mention in his article in the current Front Sight.

Here's why my USPSA membership is going to lapse: I Emailed the following suggestion to the local match director.

I joined and shot my first USPSA match last month at my local club. I had been told by fellow members to expect it to be over by noon, but with 14 shooters per squad I didnt finish shooting the last stage until 2:30PM.

My wife and I balance fulltime jobs and two small children. Consequently I cant justify abandoning them for half a Saturday to play a sport they cant even attend.

This morning I went to shoot the monthly match at my club, but as the squad sizes swelled past 14 I had to give up the idea and just go home.

Can you please make this sport more accessible to shooters with limited time by breaking matches into multiple cycles/chalks/events/groups? There is an optimal squad size to keep things moving, and it is certainly less than 14. No more than half a dozen competitors can go down range after each round to score, tape, and reset the course, so why not offer multiple starting times for matches once more than 6 competitors per stage have signed up?

I understand there is more to a match than shooting. Those who have the time and interest can still stay from setup to cleanup. In fact, if I didnt have to wait in overloaded squads for every single competitor to shoot I could contribute more to preparation or cleanup, instead of showing up right as registration closes and running back to my other commitments as soon as I finish shooting the last stage. Also, if multiple cycles were offered I might be able to get my wife to shoot one while I watch the kids, and then tag in to shoot while she babysits.

So long as this sport requires unnecessary and open-ended time commitments its going to be dominated by single adults and families with older/grown children. Please consider reorganizing matches to make participation more accessible to the rest of us.

He responded with a sneering Email about how much time he devotes to the sport, and suggested that if I can't build my schedule around USPSA as currently run that I find a different sport. (As if that weren't enough, apparently he found my suggestion so ridiculous that he circulated it with his clique, one of whom broadcast a disparaging Email about my lack of commitment to this club's mailing list.)

Perhaps in areas where USPSA is dominated by self-righteous fanatics like these, the rest of us should start a separate family-friendly (and respectful) IPSC group, like the one Byron Hall describes finding in Kentucky?

I think the MD has a fair point there. You are asking the MD to tailor his match around you, who wants to show up, shoot and go home, except you want to do it on your schedule, not even at the normal match. He's probably got a truck load of those types anyway and doesn't need another. Who's going to RO all those multiple cycles you want to have? Is the tear down crew going to wait until YOU are done before tearing down or would you help tear it down after you shot it? You seem to have no problem asking others to volunteer their time so it's convenient for you but don't want to go out of your way to help them.

We'd all like to have a match take an hour from start to finish and have it tailored to our schedule but it's a volunteer sport and you are asking too much of the volunteers without giving anything to the sport.

By all means, start your own club, and figure out how you are going to be building props, designing stages, getting the match scored and getting help from volunteers, all on 2 hours on Saturday.

What you don't seem to get is that there are people who are committed to having this sport and they give long hours to it and really don't appreciate someone (that doesn't volunteer time at all) telling them how they should run their matches for the person who only has two hours a week to give up.

Edited October 30, 2012 by BillD

[AZGunut]

I think that USPSA will never be able to make it on mainstream TV to non USPSA shooters due to the fact that non shooters cannot follow the top shooters due to the overly complex scoring system. Steel challenge/Pro am is easy to follow as fastest guy wins. USPSA you need a calculator and wigi board to figure out who is doing well. Plus for the average competitor the lack of quality prize tables at larger matches doesn't help growth much.