JakeMartens Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Nice job Max has had a long run at the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris iliff Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Good job Chad, just keep plugging away doing what you are doing. It all pays off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB45 Posted November 3, 2013 Author Share Posted November 3, 2013 I went to the range today. Had a real good practice. Pushed transition drills heavily at the end. My problem has been that I drive the gun to the next target before the second shot breaks. It feels like I'm out driving the gun. So I decided to just figure it out. I it was challenging and fun. Totally hosed up a few runs, but it allowed me to learn a lot so it was worth it. Productive day and I had a blast! Literally! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 (edited) I went to the range today. Had a real good practice. Pushed transition drills heavily at the end. My problem has been that I drive the gun to the next target before the second shot breaks. It feels like I'm out driving the gun. So I decided to just figure it out. I it was challenging and fun. Totally hosed up a few runs, but it allowed me to learn a lot so it was worth it. Productive day and I had a blast! Literally! How are you driving the gun? Are you videoing and going back and watching? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mdc7Q-IC5GQ Edited November 3, 2013 by JakeMartens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB45 Posted November 3, 2013 Author Share Posted November 3, 2013 (edited) Basically I wanted to break down my wide target to target transitions. Think 30 - 90 degree transitions. What I was noticing is that I would pull the second shot because I knew the next shot was a wide transition. (Rushing... bad I know, but I was experimenting) I drive with the knees hard to the next target, I just do it too soon. Basically I was just rushing the transition. My best runs on my wide transition drill happened when I didn't rush... lesson learned. I wanted to push it, so I did. The drill was kind of neat. It was a mix of a near-to-far, and a wide transition drill. Field of fire spanned nearly 140° with targets at 17,10, 7, & 7. Each transition was huge, so there was a emphasis on driving to the next target. Had to drive with your knees, otherwise you would fall over when you got half way through the drill. Edited November 3, 2013 by CB45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvb Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 (edited) Call the shot... Snap the eyes to the next target.... -rvb Edited November 3, 2013 by rvb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris iliff Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 I wish you people would shut up already. This guy doesn't need our help anymore. Today he handily beat Repete and I up at Porter on Repete's home range. Frickin guy is turning into a USPSA open division monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB45 Posted November 4, 2013 Author Share Posted November 4, 2013 (edited) Well Chris let the bag out of the hat, but today's match was good. I'm super pleased with my match. Took HOA by 9% or so. I shot 94.7% points after penalties. (One no-shoot) Stage execution went great. Reloads went smooth. Shot some partials on the move efficiently. Fun match. Great time on the range with friends on a beautiful Indiana day. Match results: http://combinedresults.info/index.php/match/9873 Edited November 4, 2013 by CB45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Well Chris let the bag out of the hat, but today's match was good. I'm super pleased with my match. Took HOA by 9% or so. I shot 94.7% points after penalties. (One no-shoot) Stage execution went great. Reloads went smooth. Shot some partials on the move efficiently. Fun match. Great time on the range with friends on a beautiful Indiana day. Match results: http://combinedresults.info/index.php/match/9873 Great job Just goes to show that if you put the work in, the right work, it really pays off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB45 Posted November 4, 2013 Author Share Posted November 4, 2013 Video for your viewing pleasure. Thanks Snave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrukSnave Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 yea...that was fast! Remind me next match and I will take more video! I always forget about the GoPro in my range bag! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB45 Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 A thought crossed my mind. "I didn't learn to shoot A's fast, until I learned how to miss fast." Is that true for everyone? Is there another way to do it? Is there a better way? More later... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvb Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 A thought crossed my mind. "I didn't learn to shoot A's fast, until I learned how to miss fast." Is that true for everyone? Is there another way to do it? Is there a better way? More later... There's a learning process involved in being able to missing fast? Are you saying you couldn't shoot As fast until you learned to pull the trigger faster? In order to shoot As fast you have to be able to 1) shoot A's in slow fire, 2) be able to see the sights lift and return (and call the shots) and 3), have the patience to not pull the trigger until you have an acceptable sight picture. somewhere in there is proper timing of the gun, but I think that's learned from the other visual cues........ -rvb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB45 Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 (edited) RVB, IMO what you described is how to shoot A's consistently and lacks an element of time. What I'm talking about is speeding up everything until I causes me to not hit the target. Then learn how to shoot a's at that pace. Not really talking about body movement, rather minimizing the time it takes to shoot target arrays. I'll post my whole idea below. Edited November 7, 2013 by CB45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB45 Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 (edited) -Faster at USPSA- What does it really take to learn to shoot faster? Ive got a theory why many people never get it. I hear it all the time, Slow down and get your hits. That phrase never set well with me. I think I have figured out what that phrase is supposed to mean. Shoot both shots with an appropriate sight picture and quit double tapping, which is what I did for a long time. In a match environment, I think it is absolutely necessary to aim every shot. Thats the only way to shoot Alphas consistently. It is not going to happen just by luck. Over past 6 months I have periodically practiced shooting as fast as I possibly can, and ignored points. Just to see what it felt like to push myself beyond what I was capable of doing at that time. I think this type of exercise can be beneficial every now and again. I think Steve A. would call this a speed gain. These exercises fascinate me. Sometimes there is no difference between a speed run and my match mode. When that happens I know subconscious shooting works, and it helps build my confidence. I believe the time for pushing for speed is in practice, where the scores wont be recorded. The alternative for those who dont practice is to do this in a match; which will most likely hurt ones ego. What I see at the local USPSA match level is that new people go a match, experience the embarrassment of penalties, and slow way down. These people figure out a pace that results in 2 holes in brown and stay at that pace indefinitely. The fear of incurring penalties holds back people from going faster. About 2 month ago I shot a couple club matches just beyond my skills, pushing myself to go faster. That strategy resulted in poor points and damaged my self-image. Looking back, I think that may be beneficial to do every now and again. If you think you are too slow, just speed up and see what happens. Just be prepared the results will probably look bad on paper, but hopefully you learned something in the process. In my research to figure out how fast is fast enough, I broke down Open classifiers and figured out what draws, splits, and transitions needed to be to get 100% runs. My basic summary: Draw - 1.0s to just about any target. Transitions should be around 0.28s, depending on target difficulty. Splits should average 0.2s, depending on target difficulty. Reloads should be around 1.2s. It should take about 2.3s shot-to-shot from position to position. (Unless position is greater that 7yds, which is very infrequent) So theoretically, if you have those specific skills, you should be doing pretty well on any field course. Right? It didnt translate like that for me. It took a lot more work before those skills translated into match results. The raw skill alone is not enough to perform well on a stage or win a match. I guess my point is that you have to learn how to perform certain skills at a defined pace. I thought that speed was unattainable for ordinary folks, but Ive learned that the speed is not that fast. I think most shooters implement self imposed speed limitations and never allow themselves to get faster. Before I learned out to shoot As faster, I learned how to miss faster. PS. I'm working on another post discussing consistency, and translating skills into match results. Edited November 7, 2013 by CB45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer377 Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Makes sense to me. It's not too different than motorcycle racing - you don't know how fast you can really go until you go too fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvb Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 (edited) RVB, IMO what you described is how to shoot A's consistently and lacks an element of time. What I'm talking about is speeding up everything until I causes me to not hit the target. Then learn how to shoot a's at that pace. Not really talking about body movement, rather minimizing the time it takes to shoot target arrays. I'll post my whole idea below. I'll have more time to digest your post tonight, but no, I am talking about fast shooting, AND doing it w/ As. You can go till you crash/burn and go by that 'feel' for speed, or you can do it visually.... as soon as your happy w/ the sight picture you break the shot. you can call the shot, track the gun returning, recognize a good-enough sightpicture, and break the following shot all very fast. It takes some visual patience, but that doesn't mean you do it slow. what I think you are talking about is the theory behind a timing drill. learning to 1) track the sights and 2) return the gun at a given pace... keep lowering the pace until you can control the gun and see everything in that split time. Look up burket timing drills. The std is 1/0.5/0.25 splits. in my prime I was going for 0.15s also. As tight a group as you can get at 10-15 yds, 25 rounds, 0.15 splits... mix it up by adding a couple of targets and including transitions in the timing drill. learning to 'miss fast' is not part of that equation.... -rvb Edited November 7, 2013 by rvb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris iliff Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 (edited) Well, I think the same thing is being said. I think I agree more with Chad. Maybe because I've seen the transformation from complete noob to threat to win most matches he attends. Also, I think there are semantics involved here. I think Chad is calling the shot, either that or he does make up shots by intuition, lol. Too put it simply, as I understand it, I would say that Chad decided the first thing he needed to do was pull the trigger as fast as a GM. He didn't care so much about his placement in some of these matches. He did, however, care about what he saw. In short order he was seeing what he needed to see and he didn't creep into it through gradual increases. He learned what speed was required and forced himself there quickly, then stayed there as his VISION learned to see. I think I've heard it's easier to teach a fast person to be accurate than an accurate and slow shooter to be fast.. To me, Chad proves this. I would advise newer shooters to push as fast as possible while striving to SEE in all there shooting activities. Edited November 8, 2013 by Chris iliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrukSnave Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 I think you are 100% on this Chad. I know first hand from doing drills with you. After practicing with you...I got out double tapping. I started calling shots and seeing my sights, But I wasn't getting any faster. I had a speed limit that allowed me to call shots and not double tap, but I could never get faster. You told me to hammer the targets as fast as I could and not worry about shooting alphas. I shot the same drills a ton faster, I knocked off seconds. Then when I went back and shot with the appropriate sight picture I was a lot faster WITH all my points! Good stuff....and it works! I just shot 100% on a classifier at practice and I'm not even classified as a "B" shooter yet. I would say I have gained a lot of speed using your techniques. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvb Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 , I think there are semantics involved here.Semantics are a bitch, especially on the internet. Most likely we are 95%+ in phase.had decided the first thing he needed to do was pull the trigger as fast as a GM. So the issue here is literally learning to pull the trigger faster? That's not a problem I ever had. Maybe it was the 13 yrs studying classical piano (guess mom was right, it did become useful someday). I could bust 0.12s consistently early on. My problem always has been the visual patience to see what I need to before breaking the shot... It's amazing how much time a couple hundredths of a sec gives you to ensure an A, if you're willing to use it... -rvb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris iliff Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 (edited) , I think there are semantics involved here.Semantics are a bitch, especially on the internet. Most likely we are 95%+ in phase.had decided the first thing he needed to do was pull the trigger as fast as a GM.So the issue here is literally learning to pull the trigger faster? That's not a problem I ever had. Maybe it was the 13 yrs studying classical piano (guess mom was right, it did become useful someday). I could bust 0.12s consistently early on. My problem always has been the visual patience to see what I need to before breaking the shot... It's amazing how much time a couple hundredths of a sec gives you to ensure an A, if you're willing to use it... -rvb Personally, with the classical piano admission, I feel like I don't know you at all,lol. My mom pushed the Kazoo, I failed.. Yes, 95% or higher on the same page. Edited November 8, 2013 by Chris iliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB45 Posted November 8, 2013 Author Share Posted November 8, 2013 I think I've pulled off one 0.12s split in the 10k rounds of practice I've done this year... a couple 0.13s and a few 0.15s. I spend 95% of my time practicing calling my shots and shooting difficult shots. Maybe I should spend some time shooting faster if I need to be shooting 0.15s splits... consistently. Wow, something to think about. RVB, Thanks for the awesome feedback. The above post reflects my experience on the journey to where I'm at. I know I've got a lot of work to do. I'm trying to figure out what exactly I need to do. I'm a work I'm progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Stoeger Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 I guess my point is that you have to learn how to perform certain skills at a defined pace. I thought that speed was unattainable for ordinary folks, but Ive learned that the speed is not that fast. I think most shooters implement self imposed speed limitations and never allow themselves to get faster. Before I learned out to shoot As faster, I learned how to miss faster. Yup. I train using the same philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB45 Posted November 12, 2013 Author Share Posted November 12, 2013 (edited) This was a busy weekend. FNS Friday was fun, personal best time for that match. Saturday was the second event of the Practice League I helped to start. Went better I think. More people showed up, so there's hope. Sunday at Silvercreek went well. Took HOA on the first two field courses I shot. Ran into some execution problems on my 3rd stage. It was just like somebody turned off my "Go" switch. I didn't change anything, I burned in my plan and called my shots. For two stages in a row it was like the dot was running away from me. Struggled through it, but it was embarrassing. Classifier 13-05: Felt smooth, until I walked up to the right paper. Waiting for the squad ahead, I reshot the classifier. Solid run @ 7.04 down 3. That's where I wanted to be. Last field course would have been a decent run. I got a little risky and tried to shoot a 10 yd partial on the move. Called the shot right on the line. It was 1/8" in the black. Blast! Ah well. Overall great match. Came in 2nd, behind a veteran GM from Ohio. Very pleased. Edited November 12, 2013 by CB45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Great read, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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