Eliminate divisions from classification system?

[motosapiens]

Using your own words in quotes if you place first then you have "beat all the other guys that aren't very good"

There is only room for one winner in the system you support. That system will cause the our sport to wither and die. At the least the major matches will become GM only affairs and matches will be few and far between each other.No advertising, No USPSA. That's what you will get if the classification goes away.

Anyway hope everyone has a safe and enjoyable holiday. Now off to the range.

Not sure what you mean by 'the system I support'. I never suggested classification should go away, and in fact I called out some of its benefits. I'm fine with the current system, but I think it would be better and offer less encouragement to sandbagging if the prize table stuff was raffled off.

Anyway, there really is only one 'winner'. If non-winners need to be told they are winners in order to continue participating, then fine. It doesn't take anything away from me. I compete to get better at shooting, not to be a 'winner'.

[West Texas Granny]

I ask because I'm trying to get classified in Limited, Limited 10, SS and Open. That's a 16 month endeavor or 8 months if I make the 120 mile round trip to the next closet range in my area but with gas near $4 a gallon I just can't afford that round trip. As a result I'm limited to only 1 classifier a month.

Now I understand your concerns but I think those concerns could be overcome by requiring a minimum # of classifiers on record for major matches. Anyway just wondering.

You guys are running around 20 shooters a month. Bring all your gear and shoot the classifier and record it, send the extra classifier money in and you'll be done in 4 months - or better yet, make the trip to the other range for two months (hint - ride with someone, split the gas costs, we do it all the time). You're golden in 2!

The 4 is there to get an average. It works...

I'm a 60 year old grandmother so jumping in a car or truck with a bunch of guys is to say the least improper. Then drive out past nowhere is asking a bit much. So no ride sharing.

[Chills1994]

Bbbean wrote:

...Any given classifier could be an outlier. There's a reason we use means, modes, and medians when we try to measure things that happen repeatedly.

just to clarify, especially for the newbies following along at home, I suspect when bbbean wrote "we" above he was referring to say statician type people and/or the scientific community. At least it is my impression that "we" did not mean USPSA HQ.

for example, when the single stack division became a for real division, the classifier percentages were based off L-10 high hit factors, not any actual scores submitted for SS.

I haven't looked in a while, but I am guessing that has since changed.

I've said it before and I said it again I would like to see a classifier stages records page: " Who shot the El Prez with the best hit factor in Open?". Or "who shot Six Chickens with the best hit factor in production?"

A couple of clicks at USPSA.org and VOILA! that info would be available.

[mgood]

. . . for example, when the single stack division became a for real division, the classifier percentages were based off L-10 high hit factors, not any actual scores submitted for SS.

I haven't looked in a while, but I am guessing that has since changed.

As far as I know, the SS HHF are still the same as the L10 HHF.

[aztecdriver]

I'm a 60 year old grandmother so jumping in a car or truck with a bunch of guys is to say the least improper. Then drive out past nowhere is asking a bit much. So no ride sharing.

Yeah - I guess. We often have women around for roadtrips. In either case, if your match staff would permit it - and I don't see why they wouldn't, run your guns through the classifier. It might cost an extra 9 or so dollars a match, but you'll get each one a score. Typically they just require you shoot your match gun first, then time permitting your others.

[Anopsis]

Might as well toss in my two bits. In Limited I'm a C, and that's probably all I'll ever be. Largely due to my health, that's just the top of my skill level.

Now, I don't shoot big matches with prize tables; I shoot level I club matches. If I have a good day and finish 1st or 2nd C, then I'm happy because -among MY peers - I was near the top of my game that day.

When I look at overall scores, if all I had to look forward to was 14th or 17th or whatever, then what's fun about that? Pay my money, work hard, get discouraged.

Before the calls of ego-stroking go up again, every single person that shoots competitively has an ego and wants to be proud of their personal performance. Having the class structure makes that easier to visualize.

If we just gauge our own personal performance by comparing overall percentages from match to match, then I'm afraid I don't see what the point of even being a dues-paying member is. If I'm not competing against anyone but myself, I can track that without the USPSA doing it for me.

A lot of individual (non-team) sports have a multitude of brackets for competitors; be it age, skill, whatever. I built a car and raced in the Silver State Classic Challenge; my goal was to do well in my class (grouped by target avg. MPH) of 160MPH. If I was lumped in with the 180, 190, and 200+ boys then I would have just stayed home because I didn't have the money to build a car on that level.

If this was a professional sport and everyone was a paid athlete then by all means, only recognize the HOAs - but it's not. This is, for the vast majority of us, a recreational sport that we love wether we're top-contender material or not. Care must be taken to not suck the fun out of it for those of us that simply CAN'T be top competitors.

[Anopsis]

Forgot to add, I'm a D in SS because of gun problems at the SSC which is where I obtained my initial SS classification.

I know I'm not a D shooter, and I'm shooting a level II SS match in September, so I've gone back to shooting SS and making sure I'm a C before that match (already done, just waiting for the classification updates).

I really WOULD rather have a mid-pack finish in my proper classification than a top finish in a group I don't belong in.

[Chills1994]

. . . for example, when the single stack division became a for real division, the classifier percentages were based off L-10 high hit factors, not any actual scores submitted for SS.

I haven't looked in a while, but I am guessing that has since changed.

As far as I know, the SS HHF are still the same as the L10 HHF.

Hmmn....

I guess that means I won't be seeing a single stack classifier records page for a while then???

Who has NOT posted in this thread?

[West Texas Granny]

I'm a 60 year old grandmother so jumping in a car or truck with a bunch of guys is to say the least improper. Then drive out past nowhere is asking a bit much. So no ride sharing.

Yeah - I guess. We often have women around for roadtrips. In either case, if your match staff would permit it - and I don't see why they wouldn't, run your guns through the classifier. It might cost an extra 9 or so dollars a match, but you'll get each one a score. Typically they just require you shoot your match gun first, then time permitting your others.

Not going to happen as on Sunday I was confronted at a non USPSA match while setting up for said match about my posts here. A match I didnt get to shoot. Seems someone managed to match my online ID to my real name and passed that info along with posts from here to the very people I shoot with. This is what they call cyber harassment. It's a class A misdemeanor here in the State of Texas. The name calling can be overlooked but not this. Someone crossed over the line here and in doing so put my personal safety at risk.

[Carmoney]

Granny, it's really hard to imagine that being "outed" could truly affect your personal safety at a shooting match. I would suggest that you elaborate, but I imagine it will only elicit some sort of cryptic response that will only reinforce everyone's impression that you are merely experiencing paranoid delusions.

Now--on the other hand--if you're embarrassed by people connecting you with your posts here on the forum, then I guess you should have been a little more careful and responsible when you posted those things, huh?

I believe that everybody's real name should appear in his (or her) profile, in order to encourage a little more thought before clicking the "Post" button. If you're going to post things here, you ought to be willing to stand by your own words in person. It would also help keep away some of the trolls and the loons.

[Not-So-Mad Matt]

Granny, it's really hard to imagine that being "outed" could truly affect your personal safety at a shooting match.

I'm a little confused, too. I can understand saying something frankly here among strangers that would hurt feelings if it got back to the wrong people in your circle, but causing enough trouble that you felt stalked? Yeesh.

[Chills1994]

if things weren't that google-able, I'd switch my screenname to my real name.

Some management/employer types get spooked when I tell them I shoot matches as a hobby or for fun. So in the future, I suspect that any prospective employer's HR folks are going to google my name and/or email address. I also suspect being labeled a "gun nut" would have a negative impact on future employment opportunities.

Don't post stuff you wouldn't say to some (drunk?) stranger at a bar.

[Supermoto]

Some management/employer types get spooked when I tell them I shoot matches as a hobby or for fun. So in the future, I suspect that any prospective employer's HR folks are going to google my name and/or email address. I also suspect being labeled a "gun nut" would have a negative impact on future employment opportunities.

I think being known as a Gun nut is the only thing keeping me from getting fired.

[Flexmoney]

If you all want to talk about "shooting", this is the place.

If you want to talk about one another, this is the result...

CLOSED