Sprinco Recoil Reducer

[spartacuslv]

I saw someone talking about this and they said it really works was wondering if anyione had any expierience with one and what they thought. I would like to reduce muzzle flip for faster follow up shots. Would this be a better idea then going with say a ported barrel?

Thank you

[Jerome]

I'm also curious in other shooter's experiences. I used one in my .45 for Single Stack and liked it. I'm getting ready to test one in my STI .40S&W.

[DonovanM]

I can't fathom the confusion of ideas that would lead anyone to believe that installing one of these things is a good idea. Outside of their track record at prematurely wearing parts, breaking takedown levers etc. I just can't believe that people would think that some small, outside company would know better than the people who built their guns.

Edited May 22, 2012 by DonovanM

[superdude]

I can't fathom the confusion of ideas that would lead anyone to believe that installing one of these things is a good idea. Outside of their track record at prematurely wearing parts, breaking takedown levers etc. I just can't believe that people would think that some small, outside company would know better than the people who built their guns.

this reply is confusing at best. what evidence do you have that any of this occurs? how does this part lead to breaking "takedown" levels, and by this do you mean the slide stop? please explain your view, otherwise this just sounds like a anti-sprinco rant.

[Jerome]

Well, I thought I had read quite a bit about the Sprinco Recoil Reducer. I'm guessing not enough? I haven't seen these complaints of premature wear or breaking slide stops. It's also very similar to the STI Recoil Master. Can you point me to the negative reviews, data, links, etc? Thanks.

I know some don't like them because of the way they change the feel of the gun. However I haven't heard of them breaking slide stops or causing other damage. I've only used my in my Kimber Gold Match II for a few months but haven't seen any excessive wear because of it. A long time gunsmith, anal as can be, likes them in his guns but agrees that some won't like them. He would notice any abnormal wear.

Also, what is meant by "small, outside company"?

I can't fathom the confusion of ideas that would lead anyone to believe that installing one of these things is a good idea. Outside of their track record at prematurely wearing parts, breaking takedown levers etc. I just can't believe that people would think that some small, outside company would know better than the people who built their guns.

[DonovanM]

Go on SIGforum and search for "sprinco". You'll find posts by Grayguns, who is Bruce Gray, a custom gunsmith who works on just about everything and builds custom 1911s. Any real technical anecdotes I might have would only be regurgitated from him.

The entire basis of these products fails the test of basic physics. Barring any manipulation of the escaping gases, the only way to reduce recoil is to reduce the powder charge in the ammunition. Other than that it's just mass times acceleration, dampened (not sure if that's the right word) in a certain way by the recoil spring system. If you want a "softer" shooting gun, with the recoil impulse spread out over a longer period of time, shoot heavier bullets. This is a similar effect to what these systems do but won't redistribute the recoil forces in places the gun wasn't designed to have them. I meant takedown levers - specific to the SIG platform - not slide stops, my bad for not clarifying.

Outside of that, the way to pursue less muzzle flip and faster follow up shots is through technique. The way to pursue technique is through practice. So save the money on this snake oil nonsense and buy more ammo, go to the range, and learn something about how your gun recoils.

Compared to a gun manufacturer, Sprinco, EFK Firedragon, and whatever other outfits pushing these products are small, outside companies. With few exceptions, such as Grayguns or other custom gunsmiths, they really don't know as much about how to build and run a pistol than the original manufacturer, and certainly aren't as well equipped to T&E something like a recoil spring system.

That's my recommendation at least... but it's your money, and your gun, do what you will. I would also qualify this entire post by stating that the recoil spring systems in both of my Gen 4 Glocks are entirely aftermarket. I installed a steel guide rod and a normal, flat spring to both, doing away with the silly, superfluous dual spring system and returning it to something more Gen 3-ish. Personal preference.

[kimberacp]

I agree with DonovanM. I dont use one or believe in them. Try one years ago in my Limited SV 40 didnt like it and even worsted it grouped my shots at 25 yrds, all over the paper. removed it, shot another group and printed the way it should have, threw the sprinco junk away!

find the right recoil spring for your gun/load and practice proper grip techiques, to have the front sight return exactly where it lifted from, shot after shot after shot.

just my 2 cents worth.

[superdude]

I agree with DonovanM. I dont use one or believe in them. Try one years ago in my Limited SV 40 didnt like it and even worsted it grouped my shots at 25 yrds, all over the paper. removed it, shot another group and printed the way it should have, threw the sprinco junk away!

find the right recoil spring for your gun/load and practice proper grip techiques, to have the front sight return exactly where it lifted from, shot after shot after shot.

just my 2 cents worth.

it's a genuine mystery how a recoil spring guide can affect accuracy since it comes into contact (theoretically) with nothing that can affect accuracy.

[DonovanM]

I agree with DonovanM. I dont use one or believe in them. Try one years ago in my Limited SV 40 didnt like it and even worsted it grouped my shots at 25 yrds, all over the paper. removed it, shot another group and printed the way it should have, threw the sprinco junk away!

find the right recoil spring for your gun/load and practice proper grip techiques, to have the front sight return exactly where it lifted from, shot after shot after shot.

just my 2 cents worth.

it's a genuine mystery how a recoil spring guide can affect accuracy since it comes into contact (theoretically) with nothing that can affect accuracy.

Except the recoil spring controls the closing pressure and thus the unlocking speed, two things that can have a significant effect on accuracy depending on the platform.

[superdude]

I agree with DonovanM. I dont use one or believe in them. Try one years ago in my Limited SV 40 didnt like it and even worsted it grouped my shots at 25 yrds, all over the paper. removed it, shot another group and printed the way it should have, threw the sprinco junk away!

find the right recoil spring for your gun/load and practice proper grip techiques, to have the front sight return exactly where it lifted from, shot after shot after shot.

just my 2 cents worth.

it's a genuine mystery how a recoil spring guide can affect accuracy since it comes into contact (theoretically) with nothing that can affect accuracy.

Except the recoil spring controls the closing pressure and thus the unlocking speed, two things that can have a significant effect on accuracy depending on the platform.

spring yes. guide rod no.

[Anopsis]

I ran an extra-power Sprinco in my old pin gun (460 Rowland). I never looked into the science of it, but it definitely made the gun feel more controllable. Ran it for two years and never witnessed any adverse effects on the gun or parts. Of course YMMV.

[superdude]

I ran an extra-power Sprinco in my old pin gun (460 Rowland). I never looked into the science of it, but it definitely made the gun feel more controllable. Ran it for two years and never witnessed any adverse effects on the gun or parts. Of course YMMV.

and i think this is key in addressing the OP's question. that is, whether or not users have felt a difference in how the gun recoils and whether they felt that it reduced muzzle flip. one does not have to change the physics of recoil to change how the gun feels during recoil.

has anyone compared the muzzle flip with a sprinco to muzzle flip with a ported barrel (not the same as a compensated barrel)?

[Heckler]

I tried one in my G35, I did NOT like the way it felt at all. It felt very "squishy," and slower than my normal spring. It also induced malfunctions. I called the company about the malfunctions and they said, "Let me guess, your using Dawson basepads?" I WAS, so tried without and got the same results.

Overall, not impressed in the least. Wish I had my time back I spent testing it.

Edited to add: I do not remember any reduction in muzzle flip.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Heckler

[superdude]

I tried one in my G35, I did NOT like the way it felt at all. It felt very "squishy," and slower than my normal spring. It also induced malfunctions. I called the company about the malfunctions and they said, "Let me guess, your using Dawson basepads?" I WAS, so tried without and got the same results.

Overall, not impressed in the least. Wish I had my time back I spent testing it.

Edited to add: I do not remember any reduction in muzzle flip.

did they say why they thought the basepads were contributing to the malfunctions? what type of malfunctions were you having?

[Heckler]

did they say why they thought the basepads were contributing to the malfunctions? what type of malfunctions were you having?

Sorry, it was a couple years and I really do not remember. I put the old system back in and learned to shoot better without gimmicks.

[dvc40jim]

I shot for Sprinco for several years. I don't own a gun that Sprinco makes a guiderod for that I don't have one installed.... several of them long after I no longer shot for them and had to buy them. Like any machine, guns have potential differences from one to the other, but with properly fitted parts I have never seen wearing out of parts, a part breakage due to the Sprinco guiderod or a loss of accuracy. Granted, I can only account for roughly 400,000 rounds or so fired over them.

I spent lots of hours working with varying spring rates and lengths on lots of platforms, and I spent a lot of time tuning springs for the guns we fitted them in at lots of USPSA venues over the years.

Without a doubt, tuned properly you can change the way you perceive recoil in any firearm with a Sprinco, it really involves only simple physics. Naturally each load, each caliber and many other variables come into play but in my humble opinion it's worth tuning and tweaking to get it just right. The craziest I got with it was a 5lb commander length spring but I only ran that for about 20 thousand rounds. After about 120,000 rounds I had a new slide and barrel fitted and the frame is still fine.

I guess in the true sense of the word, the guiderod is a "gimmick". But then again, so are fiber optic sights, magwells and extended basepads. To me the warranty that Sprinco offers pretty much says it all.... 2 months to try it out no risk and a lifetime breakage warrenty.

[Jerome]

It's great to the hear negative and positive on a product. Better, of course, from those that have actually used it and gave it more a chance than a few shots.

Personally I can't wait to try the Sprinco in my STI .40. I never saw gun damage or loss of accuracy on my Kimber .45 using one and I did like the feel of it. You can say you don't like the feel or it didn't reduce your felt recoil but I don't think it's any more gimmicky than a stronger or weaker recoil spring, big mag release button, *thumb rest [generic]*, large thumb safety, tape on the grips, holes in your slide, triggers and trigger adjustments, etc. I also don't think it's wasted time tinkering with your gun. You learn a ton from it - what you see, what you feel, how it transitions, vibrates, recoils, etc. Just like it's not wasted time to tinker with your shooting techniques. No Grand Master - super teacher - gunsmith is going to tell you there is a one size fits all for anything.

I don't have close to the knowledge of gun builders like STI, Glock, SVI, etc and they make great guns right out of the box. However 99.351% of better shooters change their guns considerably from what the builder built. There's a small industry on taking an STI (built for competition) and rebuilding or "tuning" it in many different ways. Of course I don't know of any top, competition gun builders that use the Sprinco Recoil Reducer so that may be telling in itself. I do know of one, long time 1911 gunsmith that uses them in his guns and loves them. Similar products are the STI Recoil Master and Glocks newer dual spring recoil system. Lots of shooters remove them although both are factory built guns. So I do wonder why STI and Glock would use them. Just for the gimmick factor? Don't think I can go with that.

[TONY BARONE]

There are a some world class shooters that use Sprincos namely Eric Grauffel and Saul Kirsch. If you don't think they work shoot some Bill Drills with and without it. I would only use them with major power factors and they are very reliable with a properly set up gun.

[benos]

Tested the Sprinco quite a bit back in the day. Did not like it, for two reasons. It introduced a pogo-stick like feel to the recoil and recovery cycle. And, why bring in a potential reliability issue in a area that's already trouble free. (Sprinco breaks and you are dead in the water.)

be

[superdude]

Tested the Sprinco quite a bit back in the day. Did not like it, for two reasons. It introduced a pogo-stick like feel to the recoil and recovery cycle. And, why bring in a potential reliability issue in a area that's already trouble free. (Sprinco breaks and you are dead in the water.)

be

but any design can break and leave you hanging. i had a tungsten guide rod break. surprised me, but this stuff happens.

[benos]

Tested the Sprinco quite a bit back in the day. Did not like it, for two reasons. It introduced a pogo-stick like feel to the recoil and recovery cycle. And, why bring in a potential reliability issue in a area that's already trouble free. (Sprinco breaks and you are dead in the water.)

be

but any design can break and leave you hanging. i had a tungsten guide rod break. surprised me, but this stuff happens.

Sure. But still, if you've looked at a Sprinco, you have to admit it would be much more likely to break than a solid piece of steel.

be

[dvc40jim]

I really can only estimate how may thousands of rounds I have put over Sprinco guidrods, but I have never had one break on me. Not that they couldn't break just like any other part but... The last time the Limited Nationals were in PA, I did have one come unscrewed and the rod stuck in a target (D hit) but the gun ran for the rest of the stage without a hiccup. When we were taping targets we found it, I put it back in and that was that.

In some guns I would get an impulse that felt like the gun was recoiling twice, or that pogo-stick like feel, I could always temper that by tweaking recoil spring rates. In lots of cases it was a lot of playing around to get what to me seemed like a faster recoil impulse, now I run them in everything to save on frame wear.

[grayguns]

As I was mentioned here as having an opinion on recoil-buffer rod systems, so shall I reply.

My long experience with such buffers of various designs from my early pioneering days in the '70's through now has led me to agree with Brian and others who don't recommend them. However, I can grant that there may be useful applications for such gimmickry in 1911's, if one is willing to accept more mechanical complexity, accelerated bushing wear and tear, and perhaps more bounce.

The comments I made on another forum referenced here by Donovan were directed to the units designed for the P-series SIG Sauer. There guide rods conduct recoil energy through the takedown lever, and can cause damage to the slide and failure of the lever. We routinely remove such buffers from our customer's SIG pistols when encountered and replace them with one of our solid FAT rods at no charge. That's how strongly I feel about it.

-Bruce

[ncopenshooter]

I've got over 100k on a Sprinco and still runs perfect.

[benos]

As I was mentioned here as having an opinion on recoil-buffer rod systems, so shall I reply.

My long experience with such buffers of various designs from my early pioneering days in the '70's through now has led me to agree with Brian and others who don't recommend them. However, I can grant that there may be useful applications for such gimmickry in 1911's, if one is willing to accept more mechanical complexity, accelerated bushing wear and tear, and perhaps more bounce.

The comments I made on another forum referenced here by Donovan were directed to the units designed for the P-series SIG Sauer. There guide rods conduct recoil energy through the takedown lever, and can cause damage to the slide and failure of the lever. We routinely remove such buffers from our customer's SIG pistols when encountered and replace them with one of our solid FAT rods at no charge. That's how strongly I feel about it.

-Bruce

Thanks for posting Bruce. It always makes me happy to see your wisdom appear on the board.

be