Jumping the timer.

[a matt]

Let say I am the shooter and I jump the beep. Then I stop myself before the first shot. Reshoot? Or should I keep going till I get called to stop? is this a procedural? It happened at the Al Sectional. The shooter stop himself after he had drawn his gun. He reholstered his gun. the RO looked confused and aggregated. Finally he started the shooter over . I was completely lost, cause I won't stop after the beep untill I'm done or I am asked to stop. I have seen shooters stop themselves cause they saw a target that was NOT pasted. If I was the RO I would keep the trimmer running and not say a word, untill he indicated he was done with the stage. I understand that if targets are not pasted the shooter can have a reshoot, but Im not sure about the stopping on their own part.

[atbarr]

Let say I am the shooter and I jump the beep. Then I stop myself before the first shot. Reshoot? Or should I keep going till I get called to stop? is this a procedural? It happened at the Al Sectional. The shooter stop himself after he had drawn his gun. He reholstered his gun. the RO looked confused and aggregated. Finally he started the shooter over . I was completely lost, cause I won't stop after the beep untill I'm done or I am asked to stop. I have seen shooters stop themselves cause they saw a target that was NOT pasted. If I was the RO I would keep the trimmer running and not say a word, untill he indicated he was done with the stage. I understand that if targets are not pasted the shooter can have a reshoot, but Im not sure about the stopping on their own part.

You don't stop until the RO tells you to, ever!

[coldchar]

Except for a safety issue such as loss of hearing/eye protection.

Jim

[ima45dv8]

Let say I am the shooter and I jump the beep. Then I stop myself before the first shot. Reshoot? Or should I keep going till I get called to stop? is this a procedural? It happened at the Al Sectional. The shooter stop himself after he had drawn his gun. He reholstered his gun. the RO looked confused and aggregated. Finally he started the shooter over . I was completely lost, cause I won't stop after the beep untill I'm done or I am asked to stop. I have seen shooters stop themselves cause they saw a target that was NOT pasted. If I was the RO I would keep the trimmer running and not say a word, untill he indicated he was done with the stage.

If the shooter is moving at the start signal, it's a procedural for creeping. Even if they stop and restart, if they were moving at the start signal, the damage is done.

I understand that if targets are not pasted the shooter can have a reshoot.....

I'd need to see that rule.

[Tim/GA]

I understand that if targets are not pasted the shooter can have a reshoot,

9.4.1- Re-shoot based on if the RO can accurately determine the score based on the situation. If RO cannot, shooter MUST reshoot. Only one re-shoot that the shooter gets to decide to take or not take- interference by the RO (has to decide before scoring or time is known).

[ima45dv8]

I may have misunderstood the reference. I took it to mean that if the shooter jumped the clock and then did not shoot, they might get a reshoot for unpasted targets.

Yeah, I know that's weird, but that's what I thought he was saying since unrestored targets are a totally difference topic from creeping.

[jdphotoguy]

Let say I am the shooter and I jump the beep. Then I stop myself before the first shot. Reshoot? Or should I keep going till I get called to stop? is this a procedural? It happened at the Al Sectional. The shooter stop himself after he had drawn his gun. He reholstered his gun. the RO looked confused and aggregated. Finally he started the shooter over . I was completely lost, cause I won't stop after the beep untill I'm done or I am asked to stop. I have seen shooters stop themselves cause they saw a target that was NOT pasted. If I was the RO I would keep the trimmer running and not say a word, untill he indicated he was done with the stage. I understand that if targets are not pasted the shooter can have a reshoot, but Im not sure about the stopping on their own part.

You don't stop until the RO tells you to, ever!

I'm with you, even if I see a target(s) not pasted after the buzzer goes off, I'm not stopping until the RO says STOP or I've finished the COF.

[sperman]

If the shooter is moving at the start signal, it's a procedural for creeping. Even if they stop and restart, if they were moving at the start signal, the damage is done.

Mark,

I'm probably stretching things a bit, but what do you think of this? The shooter jumps the start, realizes it, and when the buzzer goes off, his hands are moving back towards the start position. At the start signal, he is not moving towards the handgun, nor is he moving to a more advantageous position.

10.2.6 Acompetitor who is creeping (e.g. moving hands towards the handgun, a reloading device or ammunition) or physically moving to a more advantageous shooting position or posture at the start signal, will incur one procedural penalty.

[sperman]

Let say I am the shooter and I jump the beep. Then I stop myself before the first shot. Reshoot? Or should I keep going till I get called to stop? is this a procedural? It happened at the Al Sectional. The shooter stop himself after he had drawn his gun. He reholstered his gun. the RO looked confused and aggregated. Finally he started the shooter over . I was completely lost, cause I won't stop after the beep untill I'm done or I am asked to stop. I have seen shooters stop themselves cause they saw a target that was NOT pasted. If I was the RO I would keep the trimmer running and not say a word, untill he indicated he was done with the stage. I understand that if targets are not pasted the shooter can have a reshoot, but Im not sure about the stopping on their own part.

You don't stop until the RO tells you to, ever!

I'm with you, even if I see a target(s) not pasted after the buzzer goes off, I'm not stopping until the RO says STOP or I've finished the COF.

At a state match last year I saw a competitor lose about 30 seconds on the clock arguing with the RO that a target wasn't pasted. The problem was, the holes in the target were his. He shot it through a different port and didn't realize it.

[ima45dv8]

If the shooter is moving at the start signal, it's a procedural for creeping. Even if they stop and restart, if they were moving at the start signal, the damage is done.

Mark,

I'm probably stretching things a bit, but what do you think of this? The shooter jumps the start, realizes it, and when the buzzer goes off, his hands are moving back towards the start position. At the start signal, he is not moving towards the handgun, nor is he moving to a more advantageous position.

10.2.6 Acompetitor who is creeping (e.g. moving hands towards the handgun, a reloading device or ammunition) or physically moving to a more advantageous shooting position or posture at the start signal, will incur one procedural penalty.

In that instance it doesn't sound like a penalty would apply.

The latest I saw the shooter tried to get his hands back to the start position but the timer caught him while his hands were going down towards the gun. Fortunately he was a strong enough shooter to absorb the points loss and still win his division.

[Jay870]

We have to make the distinction between "creeping" and a "false start".

A false start is covered by 8.3.4.1

In the event that a competitor begins his attempt at the course of

fire prematurely (“false start” prior to the issuance of the start

signal) the Range Officer will, as soon as possible, stop and

restart the competitor once the course of fire has been restored.

I have had this happen both as an RO and as a shooter. In both cases "Standby" had been issued and the false start was prompted gunfire in the adjacent bay.

[aztecdriver]

We have to make the distinction between "creeping" and a "false start".

A false start is covered by 8.3.4.1

In the event that a competitor begins his attempt at the course of

fire prematurely (“false start” prior to the issuance of the start

signal) the Range Officer will, as soon as possible, stop and

restart the competitor once the course of fire has been restored.

I have had this happen both as an RO and as a shooter. In both cases "Standby" had been issued and the false start was prompted gunfire in the adjacent bay.

I've had discussions about this in the past - often to the detriment of my sanity. Though, I will restate my position. If the competitor has placed their hand on the weapon or - even further - drawn the gun prior to the buzzer going off. As an RO - my start is no longer legitimate. I can't start a competitor in that state so it, is indeed a false start - whether they have fired a shot or not. Creeping is moving to a more advantageous position - not actually leaving the start position. At which point, I, as RO, need to stop them, reset and restart.

A curious situation will occur, though, if the competitor has false started and realized it (ie, I can see the sights as the buzzer is going off) and stops themselves, and the RO sees it as a creep. The RO scores the COF as shot, and now we have a situation for an arbitration that might get --- hairy based on "observations". - At least, that's how I see it.