gunfixer Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 A bud of mine and I set up my new 650 yesterday and tested, re-tested then re-re-tested it for length, crimp & so on.. So.. I'm working on the perfect length for .40sw to load minor & major for 2 guns; 1st is my STI Edge, the 2nd being my STI Trojan .40.. Okay, I've established a consistent 1.180 and all is well... 'When chambering the rounds into my Edge, they stay right at 1.180 as they should... When I chamber them into the Trojan, they feed nicely, but get about .005 shorter after chambering.. CR_P..! I believe that the crimp is as tight as it should be but this "Slippage" is a bad thing; over-pressure situations, etc... The bullets we were using are not the one's I will be using. They were some 180gr. Brass colored HP's that my friend had brought over.. I intend to use 180gr., either TMJ or FMJ, TCFP's or RFP's... So... WTF..?!? The ramp angle of the 2 guns and springs ought to be near identical if not completely identical.. Any of you Guru's of devine knowledge have the cause, cure or insight to get this headache over-with..?!? (I will be checking feed ramp angle's and such and this may be the problem in any case..) Also, I only have 1, STI factory, 9 rnd. .40 mag at present, and my 10mm Tripp's should be here today.. They may ride/ sit higher inside the frame and give a less drastic "Impact Angle" against the feed ramp.. I'll let'ch'all know.. Thanks all, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 The barrel throating of your Trojan might be less than your Edge. The longer oal might be hitting the rifling causing set back. Crimping won't help your issue. The "crimp" procedure is just to get rid of the flare from the powder drop step. If your rounds measure your bullet diameter plus 0.02", you're good to go. Any more and you're starting to deform the bullet which will cause other issues. The depriming/sizing die sizes the case to prevent setback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OperationHitFactor Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Take the Trojan apart then try dropping a bullet into the barrel. It should slide in then slide out easy. If you drop the bullet in and the back doesn't sit in flush then you either didn't cut the chamber long enough or as stated above could be a problem with the throat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunfixer Posted November 28, 2011 Author Share Posted November 28, 2011 'Factory cut chamber & throat.. Live long rounds seem to seat properly, thus the thought that the ramp angle is a tad steep.. I'll be checking tonight when I get "Play Time" again.. Thanks guys.. What a pain, but a great challenge..! Keep the idea's flying, they are all appreciated indeed..!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I personally wouldnt worry about .005. I dont even try to seat my general (non Bianchi Accurate) ammo to that precision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMartens Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Setback of any amount is a problem. It's not the gun(s) fault. If the round is to long and hits the lands then the slide will not close. If the round OAL is changed by hitting the feed ramp you have a reload problem. Either situation is a reload problem first. Push a round against hot bench and see if you can set the bullet deeper. If you can then you have a case sizing issue, undersize bullet, or to much crimp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieF Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 You mIght also want to load some with the bullet you will be using. Different bullets will have different shapes. Some have higher shoulders than others, which will cause some to hit on rifling when others won't. The bullet shape will also effect the OAL of your round, so double check that again when you change bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear23 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 There are other issues beside the ramp angle. The mag feed from the two guns is different, I'm sure the trojan is slamming the bullet a bit into the feed ramp. the geometry is different, the edges slide has a bit more mass than the trojans, but double stacks feed a lot smoother than a single stack. I personally wouldn't worry about .005" as you are loading long anyway. Just chrono the loads and make sure you are at the power factor you want to be. If they feed well without stoppages, are accurate, and make power factor (or the PF you want), just get to shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 You need to fix this. That one round you tried that set back .005 is not going to hurt you. There will be variation from one round to the next. You need to insure that one round in 5 thousand does not set back a lot more. Can you say Kaboom? I knew you could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I agree to fix the ammo first and foremost. I found some brass brands have thinner case walls than others. This resulted in setback in my 9mm ammo. I went with a U-die and that bullet ain't going anywhere unless I pull the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z40acp Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Reduce the powder charge and load some at 1.165 oal. See if you still get the set-back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunfixer Posted November 29, 2011 Author Share Posted November 29, 2011 Okay, well.. I did get the new Tripp mags in yesterday late & they feed rounds from a much higher point in relation to the frame than did the STI factory mags.. I didn't play w/ the press last night, however I did re-check the chamber & throat area's of the Trojan and all appears to be fine in that regard and until I have my bullets I think this is all just a 'lil bit futile.. All this is terribly frustrating while waiting for my bullets, etc.. Lol.! I'll just need to let you all know the results once I have everything in hand; I am decidedly going to drop my length back to 1.165 as suggested; that length does not seem to want to move and also feeds quite well in the Edge too. I do intend to find magic loads in Minor & Major PF that will only involve a different charge.. My powder of choice is VV N320, primers are Winchester and at least for the moment I'll be using local mixed brass from a Bud's shop/ range along w/ RMR's 180gr. FMJ pulled bullets, at least for a while... And it's likely I'll give the Bayou Greenies a try later, but for now I wanna just use plated.. These sorts of things are a great challenge to me.. I am very well and long versed in 1911, but not in re-loading, so I am really happy to have you guys out there to ask..! This is a great forum & venue, too bad it took me so long to find it..! Thanks for all the suggestions everyone..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OperationHitFactor Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Another thing to check is the flare on your powder drop. If you have too much flare that can be a problem. I assumed ammo had already been eliminated from the equation. You should still pull the barrel and drop a bullet into the chamber with whichever overall length you choose. Make sure the case is not sticking up and is completely flush with the barrel hood. You need to pull the barrel to do this, because when the gun goes into battery it could be forcing the round causing setback. You should chamber check your round when attempting new load lengths. In addition, this will help eliminate improper loading. The bullet should drop in then fall out nice and easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z40acp Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) Gunfixer, just a word of caution, I too used Tripp mags. They sat up higher and worked really well. But when I started shooting some LSWCs the gun started hiccupping. Turned out they were feeding high enough to catch the top of the hood with the sharp edge of the bullet. I ended up slightly chamfering the hood. Some barrels are already done like this. Edited December 7, 2011 by z40acp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunfixer Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 Thanks, I'll check that out.! So far so good though.. I appreciat'cha..!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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