Thanks for the S&W .38 Mid Range info - photos

[pmclaine]

Here is the new gun. It came with everything shown in the photo - box, cleaning rod, screwdriver, spare bushing, two spare pins and springs (use to be determined), a red dot scope, and a box of old Western ammo

Thank you all for sharing your experiences with this gun. Now I just have to find some .38 wadcutter nearby until I get tooled up for reloading. Brian when I replenish the gun toy account I will be calling you about an SDB in S&W .38.

Edited November 25, 2011 by pmclaine

[Youngeyes]

I love a happy ending. The Forum is like E-Date for guns and gun enthusiasts(read nut).

[noylj]

1) Try Remington 148gn L-HBWCs. I found them to be the least expensive and the most accurate (the skirt is 0.360" and this, I believe, seals the bore better than other HBWCs).

2) Try unsized cases. You may have to size them initially, unless you are using brass that has already been used with the required light loads. Again, I found unsized cases to really shrink groups

3) If you have to size, use the Lee FCD (without the crimp innards) as your sizing die.

4) Do everything you can NOT to swage the bullet down even 0.001"

5) Check AA2, Bullseye, N310, AA N100, and Solo 1000 powders. All of my 52s do their best work with AA2 (2.8-3.2gn).

6) Be very careful if you work up loads. If you aren't careful, you will find 9-10 holes in you 5-shot target. The skirt on the HBWCs will separate if pressures are just a little higher (and this pressure is below the .38 Special pressure ceiling)

7) Cast bullets will be a nightmare and you will get very frustrated.

8) I have seen loads in manuals for HBWCs that are high enough that I got 9-10 holes in a 5-shot group. Thankfully, no skirt stuck. If it does, and you won't feel it when you fire, you will have a bore obstruction and the next thing you know there is a ring in the barrel. Thus, keep all load LIGHT.

[pmclaine]

Noylj,

I am considering an SDB to load for this. You mention the Lee FCD. I'm thinking that the SDB will not allow use of any but Dillon dies? Do you think I will have problems? My supply of brass is coming from range finds and some Winchester 130 grn FMJ value packs I have bought. Sounds like my best bet may be to buy 500 new cases and dedicate them to this gun? If I buy new brass I could back off the sizing die and only use it for de-priming?

The one gun store I was able to get to yesterday only carried S&B 148 grn wadcutter. I would have preferred Remington or Win but it wasnt available. The S&B brass looks horrible, the primer pocket has no chamfer I assume it will be tough to reload.

I reload for .45 and 30-06 on a S1050. I dont want to mess with that machine changing shell plates, primer sizes and the cost to tool up is prohibitive, hence the thought to go to a dedicated SDB. Besides loading for the 52-2 I will also make some FMJ .38 SPL for a few revolvers I plink with. I intend to buy 148 grn HBWC from Precision Delta - probably split one of their orders 1000 HBWC and 1000 FMJ. I dont cast any rounds and wouldnt try to get my wife to agree to lead hazards and a smolting operation in our basement.

As far as loads I have come across much data and everyone seems to be saying (I will check again but I think the data is as follows) Bullseye at 3.1+/- with 148 grn HB wadcutters. I wont be trying to reinvent the wheel. My skills will likely not be able to take advantage of +/- either way. I'll check the books but give more weight to the people that have owned and shot this gun - the owners seem to be a dedicated group. They like their 52's like MAC owners like their MACS.

[noylj]

I love the M52. I gave one each to my son and daughter. Everyone should have at least one.

Reloading:

Get the SDB only if that is all the press you can see ever needing.

I prefer a minimum of 5 stations and really like the Hornady L-N-L.

The only presses that might be better are the 650XL WITH case feeder or the Super 1050.

If your gun is as temperamental as the three I have, you will have a long way to go to load any rounds as accurate as the factory ammunition.

I tested every bullet I could find, every combination of dies, powder and charge weight, and every brand of cases.

After about a year of playing with all the variables, I settled on the following:

RP brass (thinnest walls and the least likely to swage the bullet down)--ordered 1000 after I had worked with every other brand of brass.

Station 1: empty, no sizing (I decap before tumbling). This is where you can use a Lee FCD, without the crimp innards, to assure yourself that your brass will chamber. The loads you will be firing will not expand the cases much, so you only need to do this at the beginning. My loads do not fit in most revolver cylinders, but the force of the slide chambers them just fine.

Station 2: RCBS expander die

Station 3: Dillon powder measure with .38 powder funnel (the Hornady measure works just as well or better, but that powder measure went to my son when my wife suggested I give my Hornady to my son)

Station 4: Lee seating die with custom seating stem or Hornady seating die

Station 5: Redding Profile Crimp Die or Lee FCD

You REALLY want an expander die that expands the case to within 0.001" of the bullet diameter the full length that the bullet will be seated. I found my OLD RCBS expander die was the only one that expanded far enough down the case. A Lyman M-die with a longer expanding section might be as good or better, but that would be a custom made expander.

Whatever crimp die you use, use a factory round to establish the amount of crimp. I assume they have done the work and I am just taking advantage of their findings.

The Redding Profile was a surprise with just how perfect the crimp was and how much group sizes shrunk with it. I was very surprised that the Lee FCD was close to being just as good.

All I cared about was accuracy at 25 yards, so I never worried about dirty guns or cases or smoke or anything else.

The Remington bullets were leaps ahead of any other bullet for accuracy and, as I said, they are so cheap. They come packaged in a cardboard box. No liner or anything. Just all these bullets coated with what looks and feels like grease with graphite.

Found that you could actually wipe off some of the lube with no ill effects, though I never made that a part of my loading regimen.

[pmclaine]

Great help sir.

I have a 1050 that I load 30-06 and .45 I on.

I am considering the SDB to be dedicated to the .38 ammo only. Of course when I bought my 1050 I did so thinking I would never need to load for more than .45, 30-06 and a future .308 - now here I am needing .38. Another thought I have been having is to get a single stage. I dont expect to shoot cases of .38 so having a few hundred available at any time may be all I need. If I go single stage it would allow me to do some load development for the 30-06 or produce tighter tolerance rifle ammo when I want it.

All info provided has been helpful. Good to hear RP brass is preferred, WalMart usually has bulk packs at reasonable prices. I'll fire the FMJ through my revolvers and thus gain my brass supply.

I'll print these responses out they are all keepers.

Phil M.

[noylj]

I did all my load testing using an RL1050.

A great gun deserves a great press.

I shot Winchester white box that J&G Sales had about 4-5 years ago.

Previously (about 10 years ago), I shot a cheap off-brand (Wolf or some such) and I believe Remington. That was when I decided that matching accuracy against any factory load would take some real time and a lot of testing.

The gun was never a problem.

You can get 2000 Remington Match Bullets 38 Caliber (358 Diameter) 148 Grain Lead Hollow Base Wadcutter from MidwayUSA for $120.99--that is $60.50/1000.

Precision Delta with the match lube is $74/1000.

Both are darn inexpensive for what you are getting.

Now, if I could just find someone with the Remington bullets with free shipping.

[Steve RA]

You might consider a BL-550 as you can use any dies you want - a single stage might be a jump too far back if you are already used to a progressive.

[benos]

Here is the new gun. It came with everything shown in the photo - box, cleaning rod, screwdriver, spare bushing, two spare pins and springs (use to be determined), a red dot scope, and a box of old Western ammo

Thank you all for sharing your experiences with this gun. Now I just have to find some .38 wadcutter nearby until I get tooled up for reloading. Brian when I replenish the gun toy account I will be calling you about an SDB in S&W .38.

Thanks!

And that is one sweet pistol BTW!

be

[Amerflyer48]

here are the 2 articles and the owners sheets that come with the pistol

http://s166.photobuc...rflyer48/swm52/

Enjoy !

Edited November 30, 2011 by Amerflyer48

[pmclaine]

This will be very helpful sir. Interesting reading. Sounds like it will be a great gun. I will try to shoot my first box of 50 tonight through it.

[pmclaine]

Fired the gun for the first time last night. I guess equipment can do a lot to overcome poor skills.

This is a good day at 10 yards for me, off hand 2 hand hold, with my K22, 50 rounds. I have about 1800 rounds fired through this gun in the last year and a half.

This is a reasonable day for me firing my Commander two hands at 10 yards, 50 rounds. I have close to 3K rounds through this one in 2 years.

This is the result firing my 52-2, (a gun I didnt know existed a week ago) after working a double- 0630 to 2330, with crappy ammo that I had to hand cycle, while in a rush to get home, and with the sights set however the last owner preferred them. This is the only 50 rounds I have ever fired in this type gun. It looks like 30 shots made the big hole and there are 20 "flyers". Its not saying much for my skills but its probably the tightest group Ive ever shot. Most of my targets look more like a teenager with acne.

I need to ask for a refund on my .22 and .45 practice rounds.

Edited December 2, 2011 by pmclaine

[Amerflyer48]

most 52s get set for a "6 O'Clock" hold at 25yds. that makes for a center hold at 50yds. ( the 2 distances usually shot with a 52 ) takes advantage of the trajectory so you don't have to monkey with the sights between the 2 distances...

A good day at the range will shrink that group quick. also using a "shooting rosette" will show you where your technique needs help http://www.usacarry....-target03sm.jpg note this is for one handed "bullseye" grip

I think Awerbuck did one up for two handed grip http://www.neshooters.com/awerbuck.pdf

Mine taught me all about follow through,.. after running a .45 you can almost watch the slide on a 52 recoil, you can definitely feel the slide travel. tried a game with my brother,.. we would load up 5 different headstamped shell casings and call which ones came out in what order,..then it was a simple practice to adjust focus 4" further forward.. kids will try anything to get an edge over their brothers won't they LOL

He was the one who took a medal in air pistol at the State games guess I taught him a little too well...

John

Edited December 4, 2011 by Amerflyer48

[BE Fred]

Ah the S&W 52's my very favorite pistol.

I have two...a dash 1 and dash 2 (Need a no dash).

Some very interesting reloading advice above, thank you kindly noylj!! Ever use RedDot?

There is magic in the sound of 38 brass on concrete at an indoor range.

I bought my first 52 after shooting a 92 slowfire with it at a bullseye target (these where my first 10 shots with the gun). Needless to say I shelled out the 6 Franklins and took it home.

It is a CLASSIC looking gun. (Incedenty the Model 39 is similar and also a worthy gun, but not a target gun).

Also have a 952 longslide that is a joy to shoot.

Yes sir the 52's are my favorite!

Best Regards.

Fred

[pmclaine]

I haven't brought the 52-2 back to the range yet. Next week, but all I have on hand is some S&B wadcutter that didnt cycle the gun properly first try. There is a .38 wadcutter reloading setup in my future.

You mention the Model 39 and truth be told that was what I thought I was looking at when I saw the S&W auto in the cabinet. I read a Dillon Blue Press centerfold review of the Model 39 back in October or so of 2009 and became interested in the Model 39. I had one in my hand a short time later and realized that they had developed something special ergonomically. Being polite and not owning the gun I didnt pull the trigger on it. I understand that its double action pull is nothing special. When I asked the gun shop owner to see "The Model 39" he immediately went into a spiel about "Oh no this is something else, a special gun. Yada, Yada, Yada". First I had ever heard of this gun. I didnt even know such a blunt round would feed - my 70's production Commander hiccups on semi wadcutters.

I figured I was solely a 3 caliber person (.45, 30-06 and .308) but I fired an old Colt Police Positive that came from the back of the safe today. I was using full power .38 special and felt I could get better out of that little, light, dainty revolver with some target .38. Quick inventory includes a Smith 27-2, square butt J, the Colt and the 52-2. I guess I can be a 4 caliber person.