Hearing about IRAQ Prisoner atrocities!

[Larrys1911]

Quite honestly I don’t give a flying Fig what they did to those prisoners..... if they had to kill three of those bastards to keep another 911 from happening, so freakin be it! draw and quarter them!

I’m so sick of hearing how terrible this is.... no I don’t condone it, I don’t like it. But I won’t loose sleep over it either!

The dichotomy of this situation is amazing to me.... We can Kill, Maim, destroy property and lives on both sides and that’s acceptable, but we cant humiliate some freakin TRASH that are most likely terrorists to get a info out of them....... WTF?

Yea there are times when they went to far and I understand and agree that they shouldn’t have... Hell I may even agree than they should be punished. But having prisoners walk around nude in front of women, having them ridden like horses by women, having the women laugh at them and point at their genitals, stacking them like cordwood while they are nude......Sleep deprivation, making them stay in uncomfortable positions for extended periods of time ….

THAT was the big part of the news story that had everyone so upset...........

WHO GIVES A F#$$!!!!!!! WTF are they supposed to do feed them milk and cookies!!!

Now there were other things that SUPPOSEDLY went on and I understand that those things were out of line but don’t ask me to feel all gooey because of it!

KISS MY @$$..... They better be glad we didn’t just yell "kill’em all and let God sort em out" and turn the place 2000 degrees after they cut off….excuse me SAWED off the kids head ! and mutilated our boys

SCREW THEM! !

This whole freakin thing should have been a news blurb and been GONE! In fact, according to some people it was released about 6 months ago and the American people YAWNED ...there were no pictures then.... THATS THE THING WE SHOULD BE PISSED OFF ABOUT....They let some IDIOT take pictures..........MORONS!

We are simply to fat dumb and happy in this country for our own good! Apparently 911 hasn’t awaken the idiots in this country to the fact that the world is not all Roses ……..There are THORNS

We act like these guys stole a loaf of bread or something!!! Of course the media hasn’t made much of the fact that most (if not all) of them are known or suspected Al Quaida.

Hell John Carry is a Presidential candidate and admits to committing war atrocities that involved much worse...... THAT seems to be OK though.......hell it IS "OK" he is currently a Senator......OF course his partner Senator Kennedy killed a lady that’s OK too!!!

Give me a freakin BREAK is there even such a thing as Logic anymore?????

Sorry for the rant.......

...NO IM NOT, THIS IS BS and it drives me NUTS!!!!!!!!!

Im so sick of hearing it I want to Scream (that’s why I’m posting)

I guess I am just a Wolf and don’t get this Sheep crap

I wonder how big a story this would be if it had happened about 7 months from now....You know AFTER The elections were OVER!

Larry P

Wow, I almost feel better!

[double down]

This is being debated on another forum with some people thinking what was done to those prisoners was actually torture. I can only hope in the event I'm captured and tortured I receive the same treatment as those Iraqi's.

[Larrys1911]

This is being debated on another forum with some people thinking what was done to those prisoners was actually torture. I can only hope in the event I'm captured and tortured I receive the same treatment as those Iraqi's.

Yea, cause some, if not most, people dont have a CLUE what torture is!

They cant even comprehend it..

Sadam knows though!

Larry P

[rhino]

It's amazing to me, given how this story has been "reported," that some people can continue to deny that the media has a bias against (to put it mildly) the current administration and conservatives in general.

That NBC weasel Tim Russert is still bandying the word "atrocities" at every possible opportunity.

Hopefully the new guy who was selected to become the first prime minister of Iraq will choose to put these things into perspective publically. He was held in the Abu Graibh prison for several years while Saddaam Hussein was running things. I suspect he knows the difference between genuine atrocities and torture and having a pair of women's panties put over your head (some guys would pay money to have the latter done to them!).

[Liota]

Maybe we should ask Tim Russert which end he wants in the chipper shredder first? Or maybe we should start asking if they are screaming left liberal Democrats. If they answer "no", we put them in feet first. If they answer "yes", we put them in head first. Heck, that's what their hero did.

Liota

[Julien Boit]

Well, they can call the way they want, I don't give a f..k.

This is war and war is dirty.

It don't even come close to what Saddam did to them for years and years.

I'm not personally involved, neither my country but lots of people here supports US troops.

I don't say it's good or bad, I just don't mind !

I don't think this is torture, I'd rather call it psychological war.

We experienced a similar situation in Algeria some 40 years ago.

Medias always showed "so called torture" from the french army, but they never showed the atrocities civilians and troops experienced.

Human rights watchers always had something to say about that.

Remember the Plane Hijack 10 years ago in Marignagne (france) ?

It ended that GIGN (French Gendarmerie's SF) assaulted the plane and killed the four hijackers.

There were more than 20 SF wounded and a couple of passangers.

Some medias asked if there were no other way to solve the situation than killing those poor guys !

Damn' those guys were planning to crash the plane on Paris !

Troops can do whatever they want as long as It get the job done !

[BDH]

RIGHT ON!! I agree 110%. Also, if they want to keep pumping hours and hours of pictures of naked 'tortured' Iraqi's across the airwaves and talking about how horrible this is, I think we should demand equal time. That's right, for every hour of tortured prisioner bullsh*t, the networks need to be showing an hour of 9-11 scenes, or the beheading of Americans, or the bombing of innocent train commuters in Spain. Then again, why would the media want to show any balanced reporting.....

I think most of us agree, but are any of us doing anything about this? What are our options? Write letters to the networks? Not sure how much good it would do, but it probably would at least make me feel better.

Julien: I owe you an apology. I was pretty much bashing everything and everyone in France, but after reading your post, now realize my mistake of drawing an overall conclusion. Thanks for helping me realize my error.

[Julien Boit]

BDH:

You're welcome.

[chp5]

Larrys1911 for President!!

[spook]

BDH, lots of people in Europe support America in this whole war on terror thing. It's just that the media and politicians that rule are all very left wing. They grab every chance to criticize the US. And when it comes to Iraqi bastards really torturing people, they're like "it's none of our business and it's their culture" and bullh!t like that. People in the US have a very weird image of Europeans, and I cannot blame them. With our media and politicians, it impossible to give a true view of this continent.

But rest assured that many of us support the fact that finally, some country is willing to do something to the bastards that think they can just kill innocent people around the world just because they think Allah wants it.

[rhino]

I'm not personally involved, neither my country but lots of people here supports US troops.

Hey, Julien! Thanks for reminding me that there are good people in France too. I am guilty of forgetting too often and judging all of you by the actions of some of your leaders. I apologize!

[Julien Boit]

Spook resumed it pretty well .

As you all know, politicians never miss an opportunity to say stupid things, and media to repeat it.

That does not necessarily reflect people feelings and opinions'.

[rhino]

BDH, lots of people in Europe support America in this whole war on terror thing.

Spook ... thanks for reminding us. You and others like you have to keep repeating it loudly and often, or it will never get heard of the droning of the major media outlets.

Q: Here in the USA, the left-wingers continue to claim to the intellectual dishonesty (to put it politely) that there is "no connection" between Iraq and the Al Qaida and other terrorist organizations. Do people in Europe believe that, or are they wise enough to see through the obfuscation and look at the rather large body of evidence indicating not only a connection, but obvious collusion?

[spook]

Q: Here in the USA, the left-wingers continue to claim to the intellectual dishonesty (to put it politely) that there is "no connection" between Iraq and the Al Qaida and other terrorist organizations. Do people in Europe believe that, or are they wise enough to see through the obfuscation and look at the rather large body of evidence indicating not only a connection, but obvious collusion?

A: It depends. Most politicians will not make any statement about this. Their theory: "If there's no in-your-face-evidence I could not be true"

In theory, this is very noble. In reality, it comes down to letting others get slaughtered, because they're too indecisive to act

The media, unfortunately, are very biased. All they deliver are arguments that undermine the proof of connections between Iraq and Al Quaida.

Because of all this, the people here don't know what to believe anymore

[Garfield]

Because of all this, the people here don't know what to believe anymore

Well, I for one don't believe ANY politician ANYwhere anymore.

Been disappointed (to say it politely) just a few times too much.

[spook]

Arvid, me neither. And that's exactly the point. The media just cover politics. There's no supplemental info

[BDH]

Spook, I hear ya, and of course we have the same crap over here. It seems that people believe nearly anything that a politican says, and that the news media broadcasts. Hey, if it was on the news, it MUST be true right?? If you want to read a great book about this, pick up a copy of Bias : A CBS Insider Exposes How the Media Distort the News. Of course, I think most of it discusses primarily US issues (I haven't read it for awhile, because is makes me too pissed off), but I'm sure that similar stuff must be going on overseas.

It seems like most people are completely clueless anymore (including me at times as I was drawing the wrong conclusion about anything and everything French)....

[Julien Boit]

Most people doesn't know that Saddam was giving money to the Kamikaze bombers familie's in Palestine, very few were aware of this.

The last one supports the US troops, the first don't.

So In my opinion, there were connections between Irak and Terrorists groups, not necessarily Al Quaeda.

Hey, Julien! Thanks for reminding me that there are good people in France too. I am guilty of forgetting too often and judging all of you by the actions of some of your leaders. I apologize!

Rhino, you're welcome.

As I already wrote in an old post, we love US, especially in those times where DDay 60th anniversary is coming soon (No offense intended to anyone) and it remind us all the sacrifices your father/grand father did for us.

I visited once the US cemetary in Colleville/mer above Omaha Beach and it reminds the huge tribute we owe to allied troops !

[spook]

BDH, same stuff goes on over here. Indoctrination everywhere. I'm ordering that book tomorrow. Thanks.

[BDH]

I'm ordering that book tomorrow.

Just don't say that I didn't warn you as it is going to really piss you off too!

[PhilTerry]

Same comments as I made on the other thread on this same topic.

Deliberately inflicting pain on another human being is immoral and can never be defended whatever the circumstances. If our society accepts that it is acceptable to torture any group of people then the terrorists have accomplished the first part of their mission because our values are collapsing.

Phil Terry

[bountyhunter]

Q: Here in the USA, the left-wingers continue to claim to the intellectual dishonesty (to put it politely) that there is "no connection" between Iraq and the Al Qaida and other terrorist organizations.

I will simply say that the facts are these:

1) The Bush admin has been tryinf for nearly four years to find any tangible connection between Iraq and Al qaeda or similar terror groups. Our CIA as well as the intel agencies of other countrieds have found nothing. Does that prove no connection? maybe not, but:

2) It is a known fact from multiple sources that Hussein and Bin laden (the leader of Al Qaeda) were mortal enemies for a simple reason: Bin Laden stated publicly and repeatedly that he was going to destroy the secular regimes in Arab countries, starting with Iraq and Saudi Arabia. Bin laden stated publicly that Hussein was not true Muslim, but a liar who used Islam as an excuse to get fools to follow him. This is all well documented. Hussein did not support Al qaeda for obvious reasons: they were bent on destroying him.

3) Did Hussein support other terror groups such as hezbollah? There was anecdotal aerial photos of "camps" in the north of Iraq that may have been hezbollah squatters. But, remember that the northern sector of Iraq is a dumping ground where the Kurds lived and Hussein did not enforce sovereignty there. Did he tolerate Hezbollah squatters? Maybe. That's a long way from actively endorsing or funding them.

We keep hearing the urban myth of training camps throughout Iraq where the fuselages of jet planes were seen being used by terrorists to trian in. PROBLEM: no one has ever actually seen one of these photos. We have satellite surveillance that can isolate the hairs on a fleas butt, we would definitely have pictures if they existed and Bush would have been waving them and shouting from the rooftops.

4) The Bush admin did publicly reverse itself on the issue of Iraq supporting Al Qaeda. The famous speech aboard the USS braham Lincoln was replete with accusations of their complicity:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/Prime...ript030501.html

"////

The battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began on September the 11th, 2001, and still goes on.

That terrible morning, 19 evil men, the shock troops of a hateful ideology, gave America and the civilized world a glimpse of their ambitions.///

/////The liberation of Iraq is a crucial advance in the campaign against terror. We have removed an ally of al Qaeda and cut off a source of terrorist funding. And this much is certain: No terrorist network will gain weapons of mass destruction from the Iraqi regime, because the regime is no more."

5) Bush had to stop making such allusions when our own CIA disclosed that no such connection could be established, and common sense (and an understanding of the dynamics of the region) explain why no such connection could ever exist. The references to Iraq's support of Al Qaeda stopped in Bush's statements. When questioned on the subject, he replied a terse "We can't say that." or "We don't have the evidence." and then the question stopped being asked. It was a reversal of sufficient importance that many major carriers noted it and one did an evolutionary piece showing how the position swung from "We can prove Iraq is behind Al Qaeda" to 180 degrees around.

I'm not trying to start a war, I just think knowing is better than being ignorant and truth is always better than lies. The opinion that Iraq was not connected to Al Qaeda is not intellectual dishonesty, it is an opinion that jives with all known facts.

I would hasten to point out that Al Qaeda is certainly well established in Iraq now that we have driiven saddam from power. The remnants of his republican guard have certainly aligned themselves with the Al Qaeda forces which moved in after the fall of Hussein's regime. That does not prove Saddam supported Al Qaeda, it proves that nature abhors a vacuum and middle east politics abhor power vacuums. The one we created was quickly filled by our worst enemy.

On the subject stated above:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/11/Iraq.Qaeda.link/

"Bin Laden recently declared solidarity with the Iraqi people, but he lashed out at Saddam's government. In the latest audiotaped message purported to be recorded by the al Qaeda leader, bin Laden denounced Saddam's socialist Baath party as "infidels."

I had dozens of related sources before my other computer died. I don't have time to redo all the research, but I invite all to do the searches and find out the truth on the subject.

[kellyn]

I suggest reading Victor Hanson's excellent essay on the subject at victorhanson.com. Bountyhunter, I'd LOVE to reply but I'm going to lock this sucker up as it's clearly political.