Geissele Super Dynamic 3 Gun Trigger

[Nuke8401]

New Guys impression, take it for what its worth (which may be nothing which is what you paid for it).

I just installed the Geissele Super Dynamic 3 gun trigger (about $200 from Midway with coupon). My starting point was a worked over stock trigger from the original LPK I installed when building the rifle about 1 ½ years ago. I had done several steps to modify the stock trigger. First mods included the 15 minute trigger job with only very light polishing of the sear/hammer contact surfaces, cut one leg off the hammer spring and bent the other. This resulted in a lighter trigger of about 4 ½ lbs, still a little “gritty”. While I don’t mind take-up at a reduced pull weight , the trigger had both pre-travel without resistance and then a long loaded pull of about 4 ½ lbs. I then installed a set screw in the grip threaded hole and adjusted the trigger’s pre-travel. This made the trigger MUCH better, I went conservative to prevent the possibility of AD and I also had to file the safety to get it to function with this set-up. After shooting it a few months, I decided to install the JP reduced power spring kit and at the same time cut off the hammer tail. My goal was reduce trigger pull and get a more robust set-up than the modified springs because of the cut/bent spring legs. So I finished out this season with this set-up with no issues and was able to get some pretty good groups with it and shoot 100-200 yd stages with success.

As part of a set of equipment upgrades with reliability as the focus, I decided to upgraded the trigger, after much research I settled on the Geissele SD3G. Needless to say fit and finish are outstanding, installation was easy (no fitting or adjustment). My impression of the trigger is that while it is not much lighter (3 ¼ lbs), it is incredibly smooth/slick, no comparison to the stock trigger. The actual travel is a little longer than the stock adjusted trigger but the feel is awesome. Besides trigger feel, I think the biggest advantage of the Geissele SD3G is that the springs are stiff, much stiffer than the JP yellow springs. Even though I never had an issue with the modified/stock set-up; I think the reliability is much better with this set-up. The Geissele Hammer is a cut/reduced weight piece and I think combined with the stiff Hammer spring I will be assured to get good hard firing pin hits and, not that it matters, but a faster hammer cycle time.

So if I had to do it all over again? I would buy the Geissele first. I have only shot it at a static range at 50,100,200 but I really like it. “Ball bearing” feel is a good description. I would guess many other aftermarket triggers are also good but the reliability benefit is something I hadn’t really considered.

The biggest thing I’ve learned so far in 3 Gun is that not only must your equipment work 100%, but you shoot better when you are sure it is going to work 100%.

My current set-up

16” Armalite upper, mid gas, Miculek Comp.

Stag Lower, Geissele SD3G trigger, A1 stock.

Leupold CQT with the CM-R2 reticle.

David E.

[Corey]

Shot the last half of the this season with one in my rifle as well. Love it! It takes a bit of getting used to, but I love how I can hose close targets as fast as my finger will work as well as pull through a slow precision longer range shot.

[DocMedic]

Last year I ran with a Gold's AR trigger. Great trigger for long distance shot as you can feather into 2nd stage, but with hoser stages i'll find that I can "trigger freeze" it by not letting it go far enough forward(I'm not a trigger slapper). I picked up one of the Geissele SD3G Flat triggers this year, while I waited for my new lower to get in I'd installed it in a M&P15-22 just before a Ruger Rimfire match. To put it simply I was untouched with any stages dealing with rimfire rifle. The trigger is just flat out amazing and fast. I can't wait to get my new rifle built up for this coming season with it installed.

[Mbauer67]

This is also the trigger I use and I love it too. One thing to remember is to pull through on the trigger when making long shots from a rest. Otherwise the recoil can cause you to send a extra round range. But turners feature of this trigger is the reset, you can feel it and let the lead fly

[dravz]

I've heard nothing but good things about this trigger. I will definitely be splurging on one for my next rifle.

[1911vm]

I am on the fence between this and JP. Can someone that has both please explain the difference? May be pros and cons of both. thanks

[Alaskapopo]

I am on the fence between this and JP. Can someone that has both please explain the difference? May be pros and cons of both. thanks

The JP can be set lighter but the Geisselle has a much more positive reset and feels more controllable to me. Its also more reliable in the long haul.

Pat

[jid2]

I really like mine, the pull is a touch long, but it is incredibly smooth and linear. For those long shots you just pull nice and steady. There isn't a hint of stages, grit, etc etc. Just like glass and then bang.

[9X23Guy]

SEX IN A CAN. That pretty much sums up this trigger. The reason you can run this trigger so much faster is that it has good pressure returning the trigger foward. I've used one before but I just put one in my LWRC M6A2 and ran it in a 3 Gun match this weekend. The 10 meter targets were 4 shots a piece and I was getting 0.16 - 0.17 splits. I don't know if I could actually run any trigger faster than that. And "feels like it's on ball bearings" is an understatement.

Edited November 9, 2011 by 9X23Guy

[smokshwn]

I am on the fence between this and JP. Can someone that has both please explain the difference? May be pros and cons of both. thanks

The JP can be set lighter but the Geisselle has a much more positive reset and feels more controllable to me. Its also more reliable in the long haul.

Pat

I don't know how you are judging reliability but I have several JP's with 10's of thousands of rounds and no trigger related malfunctions to date. I have had two SD3G's and one had to go back after about a thousand rounds because it started doubling.

Now all mechanical parts can have problems but the fact of the matter is JP's track record is simply years ahead of the Geisselle.

As to which trigger feel is better is very subjective. I do like the very positive reset of the Geisselle but I when you factor in the lighter just as crisp pull of the JP and a very good reset itself I think it is the better overall trigger.

[Alaskapopo]

I am on the fence between this and JP. Can someone that has both please explain the difference? May be pros and cons of both. thanks

The JP can be set lighter but the Geisselle has a much more positive reset and feels more controllable to me. Its also more reliable in the long haul.

Pat

I don't know how you are judging reliability but I have several JP's with 10's of thousands of rounds and no trigger related malfunctions to date. I have had two SD3G's and one had to go back after about a thousand rounds because it started doubling.

Now all mechanical parts can have problems but the fact of the matter is JP's track record is simply years ahead of the Geisselle.

As to which trigger feel is better is very subjective. I do like the very positive reset of the Geisselle but I when you factor in the lighter just as crisp pull of the JP and a very good reset itself I think it is the better overall trigger.

I have owned 3 of the adustable Geisselle match triggers. The one in my work rifle has well over 8K through it now with no issues. My 3G has been working for close to 4k now. The only JP I ever owned had to go back to be re adjusted after it started doubling around the 2k mark. I sold the gun it was in after that and never did trust it. In fairness I should have given it a second go. So for me Geissele has light years ahead of JP in this department. The military has been using Geissele triggers with good success as well. They have a trigger designed to work in full auto weapons and take the abuse. If it can take that abuse it can take anything. So I don't offend anyone, as I know JP is a well respected name and their trigger is good. In my own limited experience Geisselle has proven to be more reliable. In the tactical world Geiselle is the most respected aftermarket trigger. For the game both can be good choices based on user preferance. The way I have gotten dog piled on this topic I must have gotten one of the few lemon JP triggers while you got one of the few bad Geisselles.

pat

Edited November 9, 2011 by Alaskapopo

[smokshwn]

Pat

I wouldn't say that either way. Sometimes you make me wonder where you get your info as there are plenty of "tactical" triggers that are popular.

One thing to keep in mind is that the SD3G triggers are a far cry form the two stage full auto trigger you speak of with respect to military use.

Just wondering where the blanket statement concerning JP's came from. I have had a single bad Geisselle as you have had a single bad JP....I don't think either experience warrants a statement that Xtrigger isn't reliable.

[Alaskapopo]

Pat

I wouldn't say that either way. Sometimes you make me wonder where you get your info as there are plenty of "tactical" triggers that are popular.

One thing to keep in mind is that the SD3G triggers are a far cry form the two stage full auto trigger you speak of with respect to military use.

Just wondering where the blanket statement concerning JP's came from. I have had a single bad Geisselle as you have had a single bad JP....I don't think either experience warrants a statement that Xtrigger isn't reliable.

Pat Rogers once said anyone who showed up to class with a aftermarket trigger deserved what they got. That is not a statement of great trust. I get my information from life experience. I have been a LEO firearms instructor for the last 10 years of my 12 years as an officer and my peers when this subject comes up are very skeptical of anything but GI triggers. I am not saying I know everything but I do try to pay attention to what my peers say when I go to training and I try to keep up on new gear and what people think of it. From my experience JP is pretty much un-heard of in tactical circles. For example I came in first at a LEO three gun shoot this summer and only one of the shooters there had a JP rifle. It was a nice rifle for sure though and he did well coming in 3rd.

Giessele has made in roads in this area and is generally trusted and those that don't trust it don't trust anything but GI triggers. Anyway in my personal experience Giessele has done better than JP and thats why I made the comment. I understand that JP has been a huge contributer to three gun. Heck I even won a JP lower with one of their triggers installed at the state match last summer. (I later sold it to a friend who needed it more than me) But just because JP has this great record does not mean that no other brand should be considered. On this forum in particular if anyone askes the question whats the best trigger and if someone says something other than JP there is hell to pay. Well sorry but Geissele is better in my opinion. (Again I am not slamming the JP its a good option as well)

Pat

Edited November 9, 2011 by Alaskapopo

[9X23Guy]

Like Pat I have nearly 12 years in the military. I do not sit behind a desk and I have had the pleasure of shooting with some of the very best. Geissele is a very good trigger and is trusted. I haven't seen a single JP trigger in bad parts of the world. I too think JP everything is great but in Pats defense, he's right there are other good options out there. To the original question, not all triggers are made equal. JP and Geissele would be a good choice.

[smokshwn]

Pat

I wouldn't say that either way. Sometimes you make me wonder where you get your info as there are plenty of "tactical" triggers that are popular.

One thing to keep in mind is that the SD3G triggers are a far cry form the two stage full auto trigger you speak of with respect to military use.

Just wondering where the blanket statement concerning JP's came from. I have had a single bad Geisselle as you have had a single bad JP....I don't think either experience warrants a statement that Xtrigger isn't reliable.

From my experience JP is pretty much un-heard of in tactical circles.

But just because JP has this great record does not mean that no other brand should be considered.

Pat

With respect to your first statement it is exactly this thought that is very wrong. True JP doesn't sell a lot of gear to the mall ninja's at ARF.com but JP's inroads in "tactical circles" involves unheard of activities like designing the the Remington RSASS. It has been mentioned before that JP runs a very extensive LE program to include the "we got your back" rifle replacement program. These are all things that YOU were unaware of, however that has no connection to the rest of the tactical community being unaware of same.

Not to get into a pissing match with "tactical" talking heads but Kyle Lamb runs JP products etc. You make the arguement that Pat Rogers lectures against the use of aftermarket triggers yet you advocate an aftermarket trigger. Which way do you want to take your argument?

There have been many triggers discussed on this forum. Trigger feel is very subjective. Jerry Miculek and Mike Voight run the AR Gold triggers and advocate them very often, many here prefer the JP and some the Geisselle. My problem arose not with your subjective preference for the Geisselle ( I have tried them too) but with the blanket assumption that JP products are unreliable which is simply not true.

Edited November 11, 2011 by smokshwn

[Alaskapopo]

I was quoting Pat Rogers to show a general attitude of suspicion about after market triggers in thier community and in that same community Geisselle has gotten respect despite that suspicion. I feel using terms like mall ninja's and talking heads when talking about LEO's and Military folks is not respectful. The yellow glasses (competition shooters) vs the dark glasses (tactically minded shooters) type rivarly is getting annoying to me personally. I get it from both sides as I am in both groups. In my opinion if we want this sport to grow faster we should work to include as many shooters as possible not exclude or look down upon. Live and let live. The fact that Geisselle is a respected name with both groups says a lot for them.

If we get the real mall ninja's (sterotype everyone thinks of) out to a match and they learn something and become better shooters and have fun we should be happy. Thats one more convert to the sport.

I don't believe I made a blanket statement that all JP products are un-reliable. My statement if anything implied that JP triggers are less reliable when compared to Geisselle, which has been my experience. I will admit its not a fair totally fair comparision because it was just one JP trigger vs 4 different Geisselle triggers.

You're right trigger feel is very subjective, I said the same thing myself in this thread earlier. In my opinion the Geisselle is a better trigger and in my experience with both products it has been more reliable.

My problem with your post was your statement about wondering where I get my information as if I had a reason to lie or make up this stuff. I am not a sponsored shooter whose biased because I know where my bread is buttered. I don't get paid to endorse Geisselle or run down JP. The fact of the matter is I respect both companies. I am just a shooter who calls it like I see it.

As for the tactical community knowing about JP. In my experience its pretty much an unknown company in that circle. Like I said earlier I saw exactly 1 JP rifle at LEO three gun shoot last summer out of 35 some shooters. In all the trainings I have attended I can't recall seeing one in attendance. So if I am unaware of JP having inroads to this community I am not alone. Also Remington did not get the military SASS contract and lots of other companies tried as well. Knight got it. Hell Taurus submitted a pistol for the new .45 acp pistol trials, that does not mean Taurus is respected in that community either.

We have simply had different experiences and have different views and I will leave it at that.

Pat

Edited November 11, 2011 by Alaskapopo

[Nuke8401]

I'm just guessing most opinions, mine included, are influenced much more by our preconceptions/personal experiences or lack thereof (ex: only GI trigger are reliable, JPs are the best since sliced bread) than any real data.

It is what it is, I like the trigger I have now and unless it fails I think its the best. Before this trigger I thought my modified GI trigger was great and it served me well.

Arguing about opinions, well, whatever trips your trigger!

Unless you have boat loads of data to back your opinion up its just an opinion.

It would be much easier to make choices if there was only data involved and no opinions.

David E.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Nuke8401

[9X23Guy]

Very true, that's why I've kept good round counts on my gear so in the future I can do that. The numbers don't lie or have an opinion.

There, now I got the last word! (It's a joke, you can relax...)

Edited November 11, 2011 by 9X23Guy

[warpspeed]

Has anyone tried this trigger ( Gissele ) with the JP springs ?

[busyhawk]

Oh, where to begin...

The SASS rifle or the M110...while it is true that Knights won the contract back in 2005...the US Army is in the search of a new sniper rifle as of over 2 years ago. OH, and Knights is forbidden to offer a bid since their M110 was such a piece of Cr**. So lets not go there, what a waste of taxpayer monies. Let's just say there were a lot of hands in the pockets over that one.

I would love to know who in the Military on the line (not counting the AMU) uses the Geissele trigger. Just to help me know. I don't know one unit on the ground that uses a Geissele trigger.

I too teach LE and have yet to see a JP 15 D have any malfunction. Of course magazines or ammo are the main source of problems as we all know. Now understand the JP 15 D is not a competition rifle but a work horse. The trigger is a heavier JP trigger that has to work...and it does. Many JP rifles are used in PDs throughout Washington state. Colt is the mainstay here in the state but have had their issues as well.

I like a military trigger on my work rifle, I don't need a 2# trigger to do work from about 7 yards. Having a heavy trigger for a work rifle helps with no ADs even when you get surprised or adrenalin gets to pumping. I don't suggest any trigger other than a mil-spec trigger for on duty...I just don't! Let the snipers do that job and not just the duty LE officer.

Now I do trust my JP and Timny for "matches and competition" where I will only spend say $1,200 to attend. We are expected to shoot longer distances and the equipment is taken care of and it always works. Since this is a MultiGun forum I believe that is what we were/are talking about anyhow...not how some tactical guy runs with X or Z brand.

I don't have any exposure to the Geissele trigger except from the AMU shooters at the OTC (Over The Course) matches and even then the AMU gunsmith was there to make sure they work. Even the gunsmith said their Geissele triggers were a little temperamental and were hard to install.

I will wear my Nomex now...

RLTW,

Busyhawk

[Alaskapopo]

Oh, where to begin...

The SASS rifle or the M110...while it is true that Knights won the contract back in 2005...the US Army is in the search of a new sniper rifle as of over 2 years ago. OH, and Knights is forbidden to offer a bid since their M110 was such a piece of Cr**. So lets not go there, what a waste of taxpayer monies. Let's just say there were a lot of hands in the pockets over that one.

I would love to know who in the Military on the line (not counting the AMU) uses the Geissele trigger. Just to help me know. I don't know one unit on the ground that uses a Geissele trigger.

I too teach LE and have yet to see a JP 15 D have any malfunction. Of course magazines or ammo are the main source of problems as we all know. Now understand the JP 15 D is not a competition rifle but a work horse. The trigger is a heavier JP trigger that has to work...and it does. Many JP rifles are used in PDs throughout Washington state. Colt is the mainstay here in the state but have had their issues as well.

I like a military trigger on my work rifle, I don't need a 2# trigger to do work from about 7 yards. Having a heavy trigger for a work rifle helps with no ADs even when you get surprised or adrenalin gets to pumping. I don't suggest any trigger other than a mil-spec trigger for on duty...I just don't! Let the snipers do that job and not just the duty LE officer.

Now I do trust my JP and Timny for "matches and competition" where I will only spend say $1,200 to attend. We are expected to shoot longer distances and the equipment is taken care of and it always works. Since this is a MultiGun forum I believe that is what we were/are talking about anyhow...not how some tactical guy runs with X or Z brand.

I don't have any exposure to the Geissele trigger except from the AMU shooters at the OTC (Over The Course) matches and even then the AMU gunsmith was there to make sure they work. Even the gunsmith said their Geissele triggers were a little temperamental and were hard to install.

I will wear my Nomex now...

RLTW,

Busyhawk

None of the rifles in the test did as well as expected and the Knights did the best of the bunch. Semi auto .308 AR10 pattern rifles have a long way to go before they are as reliable as AR15's.

On triggers. A heavier trigger will not reduce Neglgent dischages. I hate the term AD because its not accidental its due to negligence. Along that line if you train your guys to keep their fingers off the trigger it does not matter if its a 1 ounch pull or a 10 pound one it won't fire. I use a Geisselle two stage trigger on my patrol rifle and I have not had an issue with it on any gun calls. I hate GI triggers because they make it harder to shoot well. Not impossible but more difficult. Simply put using heavier triggers to try and reduce ND's is trying to correct a software problem with a hardware solution and it does not work. That same mentality gave us NY and NY+ triggers for glocks. As for military units using the Geisselle they build a full auto trigger for the military. Not sure which actual units use it. I bet Ken could help with that one. As for instalation the adjustable Geisselle's do require some adjustment and its not hard, no where near as hard as a JP install in my opinion. The Geisselle 3 gun trigger is a simple drop in that requires no adjustment and is as simple to install as a standard GI trigger. Here in Alaska Colt is also a common rifle and they do work well. Colt unfortuately does not make a 3 gun ready rifle.

pat

Edited November 12, 2011 by Alaskapopo

[stringcheese]

I just installed a jewel in my Colt M4. I'm an ex 4 position shooter and expect nothing less than a perfect trigger. After about a total removal/install, and adjustment time of about 40 minutes, I am very happy with it. The trigger is sweeeeeet! Thanks Jewel guys!

[busyhawk]

Alaskapopo,

You are right...not an AD but a ND! I have had many ADs in matches where I was shooting at a long range target and squeezing the trigger and the break of the trigger/hammer didn't go when the sights were on target, yes, an AD but very close to the target

When in either the sand box or in the cold (thought you would understand) I wore gloves about 90% of the time. Having a light trigger would not be the answer IMHO. A military M16 trigger is regulated between 5.5 and 9.5#. It is against regulation to have anything other than that anyhow.

Watch the scene...Colt has come out with a 3 gun rifle as of this week. Colt is going to sponsor our Northwest Multi-Gun Challenge in 2012!

Pat, hope to shoot with you sometime in the near future!

RLTW,

Scott

[Alaskapopo]

Alaskapopo,

You are right...not an AD but a ND! I have had many ADs in matches where I was shooting at a long range target and squeezing the trigger and the break of the trigger/hammer didn't go when the sights were on target, yes, an AD but very close to the target

When in either the sand box or in the cold (thought you would understand) I wore gloves about 90% of the time. Having a light trigger would not be the answer IMHO. A military M16 trigger is regulated between 5.5 and 9.5#. It is against regulation to have anything other than that anyhow.

Watch the scene...Colt has come out with a 3 gun rifle as of this week. Colt is going to sponsor our Northwest Multi-Gun Challenge in 2012!

Pat, hope to shoot with you sometime in the near future!

RLTW,

Scott

Ok that makes sense. One of the reasons I like the two stage on my duty rifle is I have a bit of slack to help with the gloves and heart rate factor. If your trying to prevent firing before you intended as your pointed in its different than firing when you did not intend. I understand what your saying. As for Gloves I generally wear big ones (over sized) that are easy to fling off as I draw my gun. That does not solve the problem for long situations however. On those I have a set of shooting gloves in my car that if I have time I can put on.

As for matches. I am thinking really hard about going to the MGM match in Idaho if I can get into it. I would also like to go to the Larue match again. I would love to do the Northwest Multigun challenge partly because I can handle the climate better but its always scheduled conflicting with a LEO shoot up here. The thing is me and one of my officers have to defend the traveling team trophy from last year so I pretty much have to go.

Good news on Colt its nice to see them jump in and support the sport. The more companies the better.

Thanks for your service to our country. I read your signature line.

Pat

Edited November 12, 2011 by Alaskapopo

[9X23Guy]

Clearly everyone knows everything already. Maybe tomorrow we can fix world peace. Good luck Pat. 9x23guy, out.