Angus Hobdell Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Know some one out there who is not making major and claiming they are? Well we all know they are there. They do too. Why dosen't USPSA/IPSC do away with power factor alltogether. Oh no I hear you all say, but think about it. no more chrono worries no more cheating finally a level palying field. Set the poppers at 125 and lets leave it at that. better still the blaster will last a whole lot longer. brass too and no more pressure problems with ammo Oh Joy........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Sound like a good plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Angus, I think you are on to something here. I believe this to be a very sensible idea when you get right down to it. I also can not think of a safer way to run 9mm major ;~) IMO 135-140 would be an OK settling point here. Most factory 9mm gets up to just about there anyway in a full size pistol. BTW, I have noticed that a lot of folks tend to calibrate poppers with whatever factory 9mm is available, in whatever 9mm pistol is available, assuming that it is down near 125. Most of the time it's really 135 plus if you were to check it out. Folks just assume that 9mm ball is really wimpy right out of the box. I have found that you pretty much have to download 9mm to actually get to the minor floor. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Only one problem I see. You would make obsolete millions of dollars in guns and reloading supplies. Personal it would cost me about 2k-3k+ to re-barrel/slide all my competion guns to 9mm. There would be no reason to shoot 40, 45, or 38 super if 9mm will do. If you know someone is shooting minor, you can always inform the Range Master and let him deal with it. Not a bad thought in theory, but implementing it would be very hard to convince people of. Also, shooting bb guns (9mm) is not as much fun as shooting guns that go BOOM IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Speed, power, accuracy. From what I have seen at the local level the sport is inundated with guys who can't shoot a group to save their bacon so the fundamental of accuracy is seldom tested. Might as well forget the notion of power too. Let's all shoot multiple arrays of targets at two feet with a .22... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Ho, Ho Ho, the fish are really biting here ;~) IMO, the 9mm cartridge is not really that wimpy. Let's just ask a large portion of our LEO's that regularly carry a +P JHP 9mm loading if they think it works (BTW, this is as far as I am willing to go in the terminal ballistics discussions that could result from this point). IMHO, if the cartridge is the standard military, and one of the more prevalent LEO calibers nowadays, what is wrong with the definition of Major PF being determined by what is actually used in the real world? Besides, nothing is stopping anyone from using a 200PF if they want to right now. I don't see why that can't be left as a personal choice if the Major floor were lowered to 140, or 150, and Minor entirely done away with. I feel that brass & blaster punishment should be voluntary, not mandatory ;-) Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Nooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!! God save us from the hose fest!!! More black and white is the cure not getting rid of DVC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 No! Real "fight stopping" power! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dowter Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Quote: from Angus Hobdell on 1:15 am on Mar. 11, 2003 Know some one out there who is not making major and claiming they are? They end up looking stupid at the major matches that get chrono'd. I just think of the local matches as really good (and scored) warm ups for the major ones. I'd rather win one major than 20 local matches. Things work out in the end. (Edited by Dowter at 5:07 pm on Mar. 11, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Horror stories? Watched a guy chrono his "major" load at a State-level match, only find it come up short. Short of making "minor", too... Just because the military is handicapped with the Eurotrash 9mm (and be thankful that we didn't go with their police round of choice, the much-vaunted .32)...although come to think of it, we did get our revenge on the NATO crowd for foisting off 9mm on us by foisting off .223 on them...heh heh... Same goes for the Police. Most departments do not allow their officers to choose their own caliber or even weapons platform, so saying "9mm is good enough for them" just doesn't cut it. Speaking as an (ex) military cop, I wasn't happy with either the M9 or the 9mm round itself. I used to carry a P14 off duty, although in my old age I've switched to a single-stack. And...not only can you shoot well over the Major factory, you are more than welcome to shoot wuss Minor loads, just don't miss the A-zone Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Nooooo! Raise it to 180! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dowter Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 180? Pffffff! GO MAGNUM! 300 POWER FACTOR! I actually shot my 50AE Desert Eagle in a local action shoot. It was a real crowd favorite when I almost (and man, was I trying) knocked down the targets with the force of my shots. I thought about shooting my Desert Eagle in an IPSC match but it's really cost prohibitive when it's a buck a shot. (not to mention that I only have 2-7 round mags) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 George, Ask the LAPD why they don't use 9mm anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Run n Gun Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 I think they should lose the MINOR classification. The same conclusion the FBI came to, 40 caliber… minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 I am not saying that the 9mm is a "Kick Ass" cartridge, but it is an adequate cartridge, or it would not be in any use whatsoever, anywhere. I agree that not all favor it, but it is in prevalent usage, and therefore deserves to be considered when you decide what meets usage standards. On the other hand, I do enjoy the concussive blast of a hot loading in a comp gun. It kinda reminds me of shooting off M-80's when I was a kid. Nothing really satisfies the need for a big-ass bang like a big-ass pistol. A .44 magnum class would definitely be fun with a minimum PF of 320, or so. In the end though, Angus still makes a very good point about beating the crap out'a our gear, and for what real reason. How about some math here; 124 gr JHP @ 1210 fps = 150.040 PF (close to a typical +P 9mm loading). Compared to a 175 PF, 150 is 14.3 % less powerful, and will probably exhibit about the same difference in actual recoil, and effectiveness. Compared to a 165 PF, 150 is 9.1% less powerful, etc. Big whoop de do, I say. Accuracy being more important than anything else in this equation is the result that I get out of this. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus Hobdell Posted March 12, 2003 Author Share Posted March 12, 2003 Well looks like I really started something here, rants is what its all about folks, lets not lose sight here or Dot whichever. I like the suggestions so far and agree with most if not all. I don't think we should do away with 40 cal min for stock/limited, but why not after all this is a SPORT. Just think, you could compete real time with a $300.00 CZ 75. I know some people are using IPSC/USPSA as a forum for real life training and more power to their elbows, I know mine hurt....... I have met many people over the eyar who love to try to make the higest power factors at matche, more power to their elbow 2. The floor is OPEN gentlemen and ladies start you engines......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 I think I'll start shooting revolvers. Something with a nice little 715 power factor, maybe. Anyone make speed loaders for the X-frame Smith and Weasel yet? Moon clips, maybe... http://www.corbon.com/cgi-bin/cart.pl?db=p...CB500SW440HC/12 A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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