Undrpsi Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 I reloaded back in the 80's for a year while shooting local matches (mostly 44 mag on a lee turret). In 2009, when I got the chance to expand my gun collection, I decided to start reloading again. First thing I did was get me a Lee single stage (challenger? Cast iron one). Quickly overtook that setup due to volume. Jumped into a Pro 1000 next. Took me a good month or so before I got it rocking correctly..the primer system being the fail point. Then I went to dual Pro's...one for large and one for small. These are good, relatively inexpensive machines that make good range ammo...once you take the time to set them up. They are also notorious for spitting powder (IMHO I think it's the relatively small OD on the shellplate combined with the requisite rotation speed to keep things working right...hard to 'creep' the shells around). So you spend a good bit of time taking it down and cleaning...and cleaning the priming system in between that...and tweaking it back after you take it apart to clean it...etc. So, after about 16 months of this, I thought "Get Thee a Loadmaster!".... ...that was 4 weeks ago...and I can honestly say the Loadmaster's priming system is a WORSE design than the PRO's (which I thought was impossible). The press itself is great. Lot's of vids on getting it rotating correctly and smoothly. Setup of the dies...well, Lee dies are pretty much the standard for reloading good ammo (not match grade..but VERY good). Look, I own a plastics machine shop (industrial parts...not walmart stuff)...so I know what kinds of plastic should be used for applications. The plastic they picked for the priming system is NOT a glass filed material...matter of fact it's just a polyethylene or polypropylene material. THERE is where the problem is...the primers are pushed forward by a small plastic shuttle, then the METAL primer seating pin pushes it up through a opening in the plastic cover. The cover hole it goes through helps allgn the primer on the pin. This is all great until you get the first primer that jams going up. You can't go up and it won't go down...take it aprt...clean...start again...5 rounds later...JAM!. <Sigh>...afte 5 straight days I finally figured out that when the very first primer jammed it stretched the little arm on the primer shuttle AND enlarged the hole through which the primer passes. This not only allows the primers to move around more in the..er..shuttle bay but it also allows the primer to hand off the primer pin more...and the enlarged hole, instead of aligning the primer, catches the side and tilts it. <sigh> Called midway..and $22 later (primer tray cover and primer shuttle + shipping) I was back in busines..FOR 3 DAYS...then the SOB did it again. I decided then...there has to be better.... Went to several shops (none carried Dillon). Spent an evening loading with a friend on his RCBS, another with an LNL (I think his is the one before what's out now), and another friend with a 650. I watched very carefully...not only with what the turret was doing..but what the operator was having to do to make it operate smoothly. Both the RCBS and the Hornady were 'tinkers'. Every so often they had to stick their fingers in and thump something to align it (which makes a 'tink' sound). The guy on the 650? Brass-Pull-Brass-Pull-check powder-bullet-pull and out come the rounds. I never once saw him do anything but stick the brass or bullet in (he wasn't using a case feeder). Now take it with a grain of salt..he might only load one caliber..so it's set and he doesn't have to monkey it. I went in expecting, like the Lee, to never be able to get up to speed..and STAY THERE. The Dillon seemed to be able to do that. So, I ordered my 550 from Brian. A 550? But you know HOW to reload...and you have used a progressive. Yeah, which is EXACTLY why I got the 550. The Auto progressive can be a nightmare. The ability to manually rotate appeals to me. I load some calibers that you REALLY have to pay attention to (50 AE and .357 mag for my other Desert Eagle...you really have to watch crimp and powder loads). So it gives me a "second strike" ability in case I miss something. Since I load about 8 calibers (all handgun but .223) I needed something that was easy to switch. I REALLY looked at the SDB...small, hand gun only, progressive...but...proprietary dies, ONLY hand guns, no casefeeder option..I then looked at the 550/650 series. The 650 is NICE...but it's fully progressive, slightly more than the 550 in cost and upkeep (conversion kits - dies-cf plates) and, when I looked / played with it at my friends house, I was really NOT liking the semi-hidden primer system. <insert flames and agreemant comments here>. I read these forums, other blogs (not that any are as good as BE's...wink wink). I watched scores of video's. I then picked the RL550. It met my needs even though I (kinda) already know what to do. I load several calibers...so wanted a quick switch system. I did look hard at the 650...and when I was 'trying and failing' to find a used one..I realized one of the biggest reasons Brian gives is what you need to think about. THE DILLONS SELL FOR ALMOST NEW PRICES!! Hello? Spend $700 with Brian and decide after a few months you REALLY need the 650...sell it and you're not out that much (watch those fee's). So I have got me a setup and collected enough bits to start in with about 3 calibers. I have dies (Lee) for a lot more...but I'll see how the Dillon ones work versus the Lee's...before I start replacing my die brand. Them suckers are 'spensive! Now all I have to do is wait...<sigh> Old picture of the Lab... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGMorden Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Congrats on your Dillon. I've had a lot of luck with my Lee equipment, but owning some other equipment from other companies I certainly can tell a quality difference. I've always been of the opinion that while my current stuff works, a progressive is just a bit too complex of a machine for Lee to tackle with their production methods - the priming system as you mentioned, being one of the main issues. Still might go for a Lee Classic Turret though. It seems to work well, and I only do 150 or so rounds per week, so speed isn't too important. If I opt to go full-progressive though I already have decided that it's either a Dillon SDB or a Hornady LnL for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngeyes Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Well said. You'll love the 550. Send picture of the new set-up. Yes, Brian is occasionally right with his reloading advise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undrpsi Posted September 30, 2011 Author Share Posted September 30, 2011 Congrats on your Dillon. I've had a lot of luck with my Lee equipment, but owning some other equipment from other companies I certainly can tell a quality difference. I've always been of the opinion that while my current stuff works, a progressive is just a bit too complex of a machine for Lee to tackle with their production methods - the priming system as you mentioned, being one of the main issues. Still might go for a Lee Classic Turret though. It seems to work well, and I only do 150 or so rounds per week, so speed isn't too important. If I opt to go full-progressive though I already have decided that it's either a Dillon SDB or a Hornady LnL for me. MGMorden, Oh..keeping the Lee single station press. Use it for rifle (.223 and soon .308) and my .50 AE now. I have just been loading what I need for the week...then I noticed I had MULTIPLE 5 gallon buckets of brass building up under the desk...so I need something more than the single station. Oh..and here's WHY I need all that ammo now...I got 3 boys who LOVE to shoot my ammo Course they do help me do some basic case prep and boxing..so that is something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powder Finger Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Congrats on your Dillon. I've had a lot of luck with my Lee equipment, but owning some other equipment from other companies I certainly can tell a quality difference. I've always been of the opinion that while my current stuff works, a progressive is just a bit too complex of a machine for Lee to tackle with their production methods - the priming system as you mentioned, being one of the main issues. Still might go for a Lee Classic Turret though. It seems to work well, and I only do 150 or so rounds per week, so speed isn't too important. If I opt to go full-progressive though I already have decided that it's either a Dillon SDB or a Hornady LnL for me. MGMorden, Oh..keeping the Lee single station press. Use it for rifle (.223 and soon .308) and my .50 AE now. I have just been loading what I need for the week...then I noticed I had MULTIPLE 5 gallon buckets of brass building up under the desk...so I need something more than the single station. Oh..and here's WHY I need all that ammo now...I got 3 boys who LOVE to shoot my ammo Course they do help me do some basic case prep and boxing..so that is something... please glasses every one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sr20ve Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 So I still have a bag of ammo that I need to pull the bullets on due to tipped primers from being loaded on a Load Master. Your assessment of the LnL is spot on. It can work but it's not as reliable as the 650. My LnL was a 99% machine at best with a casefeeder. Sometimes much worse. My 650 even with a casefeeder seldom misses a beat. 550 was even better because it's simpler. ONLY thing you need to do to keep the 550 running smooth is wipe the primer slide area before every session. When it hangs up even once take the slider out and clean it. Every couple thousand rounds or so. Every couple years you might need to bend the spring that moves the slider to add more force. I make it sound bad but it's basic "keep it clean, and every once in a while you add a little extra bend to one part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George H Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Lee just came out with a replacement primer feeder that eliminates the problem with the primer slider. I replaced mine on my loadmaster and it feeds primers slick as can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellymc Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Lee just came out with a replacement primer feeder that eliminates the problem with the primer slider. I replaced mine on my loadmaster and it feeds primers slick as can be. Just got my new style slider also so far it's great, it was free also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98006 Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 how did you get it for free?? also, i saw a pix of it and could not tell a difference from the old one. What have they improved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellymc Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 how did you get it for free?? also, i saw a pix of it and could not tell a difference from the old one. What have they improved? I got it for free after I called Lee and politely inquired about the new part. The new one has no little arm that passes across the primer hole like the old one thus nothing gets bent in that opening. totally different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARKAVELI Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Awsome , My 550B reloads with no problem .. Your bench looks empty without your 550B, good luck have fun with your new toy.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undrpsi Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 Congrats on your Dillon. I've had a lot of luck with my Lee equipment, but owning some other equipment from other companies I certainly can tell a quality difference. I've always been of the opinion that while my current stuff works, a progressive is just a bit too complex of a machine for Lee to tackle with their production methods - the priming system as you mentioned, being one of the main issues. Still might go for a Lee Classic Turret though. It seems to work well, and I only do 150 or so rounds per week, so speed isn't too important. If I opt to go full-progressive though I already have decided that it's either a Dillon SDB or a Hornady LnL for me. MGMorden, Oh..keeping the Lee single station press. Use it for rifle (.223 and soon .308) and my .50 AE now. I have just been loading what I need for the week...then I noticed I had MULTIPLE 5 gallon buckets of brass building up under the desk...so I need something more than the single station. Oh..and here's WHY I need all that ammo now...I got 3 boys who LOVE to shoot my ammo Course they do help me do some basic case prep and boxing..so that is something... please glasses every one. Staged Photo...nobody was shooting...when we do, whoever is NOT shooting backs up from under the hut...and yes, I have multiple pairs of eye protection. Two of my boys already wear shatterproof glasses too. Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undrpsi Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 how did you get it for free?? also, i saw a pix of it and could not tell a difference from the old one. What have they improved? I got it for free after I called Lee and politely inquired about the new part. The new one has no little arm that passes across the primer hole like the old one thus nothing gets bent in that opening. totally different Doh! My Load Master is only a few weeks old...how come they are still shipping the old style parts with it? Grrrrr... I even made a complete shuttle out of aluminum (to the old design)...that didn't fix it..but it did mangle the crap out of the primers when it jammed..Couple of times I was damn lucky it didn't pop them off..took the aluminum back out. Then I was in the middle of drawing a new cover in Solidworks...and I thought "what the heck am I doing?". I shouldn't have to do R&D just to reload straight wall brass..you know? Undrpsi (under-pressure) Former RM1(SS) Can't wait to get my requisite posts out of the way so I can edit my signature...<sheesh> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undrpsi Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 YES!!! Wife just called..."You get a crap load of boxes in...all marked "Dillon" Heck yeah!...and she has the night shift at the hospital wed-thur-friday...Even better!! Will update the post with pics when I get them... Thanks Undrpsi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undrpsi Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 (edited) Think I'll do an 'unboxing' video on my new Dillon reloader Undrpsi Edited October 3, 2011 by Undrpsi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkballedtarget Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 When I start reloading I think I will start off with a 550! Youll love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadgetech Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 When I start reloading I think I will start off with a 550! Youll love it. Ditto that. I've done quite a bit of reading on reloading and I believe the 550 to be the best option for me since I'm not looking to do 1000s of loads every month. I like the SDB but I don't like the proprietary parts that come along with that besides if I got the SDB, I'd want the 550b in a couple weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou D Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I've been using Lee presses for years,I like them,can't beat the price.I bought one back when they first came out in the early 80's.I have 3 or 4 Pro 1000's,and two Loadmasters,one large primer,one small,a Lee single stage,a Lee Turret,and a Green Machine.I did one mod to my Loadmaster that worked great.The biggest problem with the primer feed was that it primes on the upstroke,so you can't tell if you're smashing the heck out of the primer feed and primer.I took off the screw that activates the primer seater,and made a new primer arm that has a long aluminum handle on it,with a spring to hold it up.With that,I can prime the shell myself,instead of relying on the machine.Seems I only needed it on the large primer machine,though,the small one runs flawlessly.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob DuBois Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Once you get the hang of the 550 most of the Lee press stuff you have will be for sale. I'm a big fan of Lee's dies but their presses aren't the best way to go. You'll soon find Dillon is one of the best businesses on the planet to do business with, have questions-call. If you have a large selection of Lee dies they will work fine in your new 550 but I would suggest you purchase Dillon's one inch nuts to lock them in place. Makes die adjustments easier and the die can be locked down rock solid. I've found powdered graphite is a great lubricant to put on the primer slide bar. A can of spray compressed air is another useful tool to clean trash build up on the primer slide bar if you don't have a compressor. Mount the 550 so you can see the powder in station three before placing the bullet. Enjoy your new press it will provide years of quality reloading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canman Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I took the primer feed off my Pro 1000 and hand primed all my ammo. When I get the hang of my 550 the Lee will go up for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undrpsi Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 If you have a large selection of Lee dies they will work fine in your new 550 but I would suggest you purchase Dillon's one inch nuts to lock them in place. A can of spray compressed air is another useful tool to clean trash build up on the primer slide bar if you don't have a compressor. Mount the 550 so you can see the powder in station three before placing the bullet. Bob, Well been over a week. The Load Master is already on Ebay. The RL550 rocks. Loaded up about 700 rounds of 9mm and about 1200 of .45 ACP. Yep...keep 'Canned Air' on the workbench already. Yep...Used my Lee .45 ACP dies with absolutely no problem. I got 5 of the thin locking rings in my spare parts box...already got them on the Lee's. They, the Lee's, worked like a champ. I am slowly switching out my dies...have a friend I am giving them to. I found him a RL550B new that is really cheap ($250 - brand new - ) that I am going to give my buddy along with the dies. He ran into some inexpensive AR's about 18 months ago and just gave me one. He wants to reload but can't afford the equipment (car problems and work cut his hours). So I am going to help a brother out. Pay if forward and all that. PLUS he gave me a new Busmaster AR shen he was rolling in them...gotta love that. Love my Dillon...best choice I have ever let people talk me into... Undrpsi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Junk the Lee's and purchase a Dillon 550 from an experienced user. Changepover form large to small primers as well as caliber changes are a snap and no issues with any brand of primer. Cut your losses and run to the nearest Dillon 550. I reloaded back in the 80's for a year while shooting local matches (mostly 44 mag on a lee turret). In 2009, when I got the chance to expand my gun collection, I decided to start reloading again. First thing I did was get me a Lee single stage (challenger? Cast iron one). Quickly overtook that setup due to volume. Jumped into a Pro 1000 next. Took me a good month or so before I got it rocking correctly..the primer system being the fail point. Then I went to dual Pro's...one for large and one for small. These are good, relatively inexpensive machines that make good range ammo...once you take the time to set them up. They are also notorious for spitting powder (IMHO I think it's the relatively small OD on the shellplate combined with the requisite rotation speed to keep things working right...hard to 'creep' the shells around). So you spend a good bit of time taking it down and cleaning...and cleaning the priming system in between that...and tweaking it back after you take it apart to clean it...etc. So, after about 16 months of this, I thought "Get Thee a Loadmaster!".... ...that was 4 weeks ago...and I can honestly say the Loadmaster's priming system is a WORSE design than the PRO's (which I thought was impossible). The press itself is great. Lot's of vids on getting it rotating correctly and smoothly. Setup of the dies...well, Lee dies are pretty much the standard for reloading good ammo (not match grade..but VERY good). Look, I own a plastics machine shop (industrial parts...not walmart stuff)...so I know what kinds of plastic should be used for applications. The plastic they picked for the priming system is NOT a glass filed material...matter of fact it's just a polyethylene or polypropylene material. THERE is where the problem is...the primers are pushed forward by a small plastic shuttle, then the METAL primer seating pin pushes it up through a opening in the plastic cover. The cover hole it goes through helps allgn the primer on the pin. This is all great until you get the first primer that jams going up. You can't go up and it won't go down...take it aprt...clean...start again...5 rounds later...JAM!. <Sigh>...afte 5 straight days I finally figured out that when the very first primer jammed it stretched the little arm on the primer shuttle AND enlarged the hole through which the primer passes. This not only allows the primers to move around more in the..er..shuttle bay but it also allows the primer to hand off the primer pin more...and the enlarged hole, instead of aligning the primer, catches the side and tilts it. <sigh> Called midway..and $22 later (primer tray cover and primer shuttle + shipping) I was back in busines..FOR 3 DAYS...then the SOB did it again. I decided then...there has to be better.... Went to several shops (none carried Dillon). Spent an evening loading with a friend on his RCBS, another with an LNL (I think his is the one before what's out now), and another friend with a 650. I watched very carefully...not only with what the turret was doing..but what the operator was having to do to make it operate smoothly. Both the RCBS and the Hornady were 'tinkers'. Every so often they had to stick their fingers in and thump something to align it (which makes a 'tink' sound). The guy on the 650? Brass-Pull-Brass-Pull-check powder-bullet-pull and out come the rounds. I never once saw him do anything but stick the brass or bullet in (he wasn't using a case feeder). Now take it with a grain of salt..he might only load one caliber..so it's set and he doesn't have to monkey it. I went in expecting, like the Lee, to never be able to get up to speed..and STAY THERE. The Dillon seemed to be able to do that. So, I ordered my 550 from Brian. A 550? But you know HOW to reload...and you have used a progressive. Yeah, which is EXACTLY why I got the 550. The Auto progressive can be a nightmare. The ability to manually rotate appeals to me. I load some calibers that you REALLY have to pay attention to (50 AE and .357 mag for my other Desert Eagle...you really have to watch crimp and powder loads). So it gives me a "second strike" ability in case I miss something. Since I load about 8 calibers (all handgun but .223) I needed something that was easy to switch. I REALLY looked at the SDB...small, hand gun only, progressive...but...proprietary dies, ONLY hand guns, no casefeeder option..I then looked at the 550/650 series. The 650 is NICE...but it's fully progressive, slightly more than the 550 in cost and upkeep (conversion kits - dies-cf plates) and, when I looked / played with it at my friends house, I was really NOT liking the semi-hidden primer system. <insert flames and agreemant comments here>. I read these forums, other blogs (not that any are as good as BE's...wink wink). I watched scores of video's. I then picked the RL550. It met my needs even though I (kinda) already know what to do. I load several calibers...so wanted a quick switch system. I did look hard at the 650...and when I was 'trying and failing' to find a used one..I realized one of the biggest reasons Brian gives is what you need to think about. THE DILLONS SELL FOR ALMOST NEW PRICES!! Hello? Spend $700 with Brian and decide after a few months you REALLY need the 650...sell it and you're not out that much (watch those fee's). So I have got me a setup and collected enough bits to start in with about 3 calibers. I have dies (Lee) for a lot more...but I'll see how the Dillon ones work versus the Lee's...before I start replacing my die brand. Them suckers are 'spensive! Now all I have to do is wait...<sigh> Old picture of the Lab... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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