Any issue with this 223 ammunition ?

[Nimitz]

At a local gunshow next month I have the opportunity to pick up a case (1000 rds) of 223 for $199. I didn't get to look at the ammo at the last show but I assum it's steel not brass casings. So other than the fact that it's not reloadable are there any cons for running this through my M4 carbine? thx

[RiggerJJ]

take a magnet and check the bullet, not the case. if its magnetic you might wanna check the range you plan on shooting at to see if steel projectiles are allowed...and also know that steel projectiles damage steel targets.

if the bullet isn't magnetic, probably no issues.

jj

Edited September 29, 2011 by RiggerJJ

[StealthyBlagga]

JJ is correct - steel projectiles are often prohibited at 3-gun matches. If the projectile attracts a magnet, use it elsewhere. Ignore the rules, get caught, and you will get DQ'd.

Additionally, a lot of steel cased ammo is crap. Underpowered. Inaccurate. Prone to sticking hard in the chamber. I would run it for practice, but not in any situation where you care about the outcome.

[Charles Bond]

You did not share the brand. Just iike brass cased ammo, all steel cased is not created equal.

[kurtm]

I don't know why I bother anymore, but a "steel jacket" is no more harmful to steel targets than a soft lead bullet. The hardness of a typical "steel" jacket measure a firm 89 on the Rockwell "A" scale a good old guilding metal jacket measure a nice 67, soft steel fuel line measure a whopping 147. This is a non issue except in the minds of zelouse M.D.s...now the problem is when you have a Steel penetrator like M855 or SS109 which is a TRUE HARDENED penetrator with a Rockwell "C" rating of 57-62. Now they all attract magnets and rather than take the time to tell the difference.....if it attracts a magnet it is bad in the eyes of the match putteroners.

It won't harm your M-4 in the least, but as my good friend Charles points out it may be good or may be lack luster KurtM

[TwoShot]

The last 3 gun match I worked, we checked ammo with a magnet. If it stuck to the bullet, the bullet was cut with a bolt cutter. Steel jacket only - ok, ammo with a steel core could not be used on stages with steel targets, paper only. Yes, we trusted the shooters to use the correct ammo given the targets on the stage.

[Bryan 45]

Shoot a MGM flasher at 100 w/ XM193 and Wolf 55g and tell me which one tears up a target more.

The 193 at around 3200 will leave more of a mark than the Wolf at 2800.

[Nimitz]

thanks guys. I was not planning on using it as match ammo, just at the range. I'll check the bullets just to know but my local range allows steel.

[RiggerJJ]

I don't know why I bother anymore, but a "steel jacket" is no more harmful to steel targets than a soft lead bullet. The hardnedss of a typical "steel" jacket measure a firm 89 on the Rockwell "A" scale a good old guilding metal jacket measure a nice 67, soft steel fuel line measure a whopping 147. This is a non issue except in the minds of zelouse M.D.s...now the problem is when you have a Steel penetrator like M855 or SS109 which is a TRUE HARDENED penetrator with a Rockwell "C" rating of 57-62. Now they all attract magnets and rather than take the time to tell the difference.....if it attracts a magnet it is bad in the eyes of the match putteroners.

It won't harm your M-4 in the least, but as my good friend Charles points out it may be good or may be lack luster KurtM

then I must be one of those evil "zelous MDs". I know first hand that steel jacketed bullets DO damage steel targets. Proved it several times with new, virgin targets in a controlled "test". At about 100 yards the projectile will zing right THRU the target, this is 223 or 308. 250 and out, 223 leave quite a nasty divot, 308 will still zing right thru.

Shoot em at the same ranges with copper jacketed lead (Hollow point OR FMJs, 223 or 308), and the results are as expected; minimal if any damage.

targets used in the "test" were of several major target mfg...and home grown.

I didn't post my answer to the OP to get into another argument about steel projectiles, just was telling the OP that some ranges (not just matches) have banned steel projectiles.

jj

Edited September 29, 2011 by RiggerJJ

[StealthyBlagga]

At Rio Salado/SMM3G we currently prohibit ALL projectiles that attract a magnet. We do this for two reasons:

1) Our experience is that some steel-containing projectiles damage targets, while others do not. Using a magnet is a quick and efficient method to determine whether a projectile contains steel, but of course a magnet cannot differentiate between "good" and "bad" steel projectiles. Per JJ's comments above, I'm not sure even cross-sectioning the ammo to see where the steel is would give us a definitive answer. If the wrong ammo slips through, this is the result on an AR500 steel plate at 400 yards:

2) Steel projectiles of all types can cause sparks if they hit rock. As the recent wildfires across the southwest show, sparks in dry desert conditions are never a good idea. For this reason, there is a Rio Salado range rule prohibiting steel projectiles in much of the range. We have to comply with this rule if we wish to continue to run our 3-gun matches there.

With the above said, as part of our preparation for SMM3G2012 I will be raising the whole issue of steel projectiles again to see if we can refine the rule a bit in the competitors' favor. I'll post here with any rules updates we make.

[bwit]

Wow, I am amazed at the damage at 400 yds on armor plate.

I would also think steel cased or steel containing bullets would be more of a safety issue ricocheting off of targets and larger rocks. Does anyone know ???????

Edited October 3, 2011 by bwit