How Much Power for Pins?

[Matt VDW]

What sort of power level do you like to use for a bowling pin match?  (Assume that you have to balance power against controllability without the use of a compensator.)

I know a few guys who believe in the "More is better" theory and they seem to be on a never-ending quest to load more powder underneath bigger bullets.  But I've found that a well-centered hit from a "normal" .40 S&W (180 grains at about 900 fps) will push a pin off a table just fine, though not as violently as the hotter loads will.

What do you think?  

[benos]

A lot of this answer depends on where you are shooting the pins. Is the background terrible (increasing your chance of hits off center), are the tables wood or steel, are the pins loaded with bullets, are the tables perfectly level or sloped, or is it raning (good for steel)? If everything is rock-solid, a 180 pf load will suffice. If conditions are not in your favor, bump up your loads. In my later years at Second Chance, I shot some pretty stompin loads in my HyBrid .40 in Stock class. (I think SC is the only place a Hybrid was legal in Stock.) Around a 215 — 220 power factor! When I was shooting a REAL stock gun, I dropped them down to around a 190 - 200 pf.

be

[Patrick Sweeney]

Matt,

I spent the first few years shooting Second Chance pestering everyone for their load data.  The consensus was a 195 PF was a good balance between delivery and recoil.  Some of the real pin killers like Brian and some others bumped that up to 210 or so.  While a 195 is within reach of a .40, going much higher is not a good idea.  To reach a 210PF, you'll have to boost a 180 to 1166fps, risky even loaded long.

As Brian mentioned, at SC a Hybrid was Stock, along with a Mag na ported pistol through slide and barrel.  In other shoots where a Stock gun isn't allowed any porting, stick with the 195 PF.  The hot load gave a slightly greater margin of error, but you need the ports to keep the power controlled.

Curiously, pin shooters seem to prefer generating the PF with mass, not velocity.  I've shot pins with 240's and 265's in .45 ACP, and they go off nicely.  For me, it has to do with the roll of the gun and the timing to the next pin.  A hot load with a light bullet gets the gun back down too soon before I'm on the next pin.  I've even experimented with 300's in the .45 ACP.  Too much of a good thing, and lacking penetration, so bullets bounce off the pins.  (I do not want to catch a 300 grain bullet in the shorts, regardless of low velocity!)

That said, I keep experimenting with 185's to see if I can get the comp to work the way I want, and not make the gun too snappy.

While 5-pin loads can be arcane, 9-pin loads are a cinch. Use any steel load, and practice, practice, practice.

Patrick

[38supPat]

I can't remeber the exact load but Terry O'Hara let me try a few 250 gr .45 loads through his pin guns, one hybrid, one comp and I didn't have much problem with recovery and they were pretty stiff. But with the slower push type of recoil it shot fairly quick, granted aside from practicing with Terry I havn't done much pinning. Did beat Alice with a shotgun on a steel side event once though, man she was not impressed...lol.

Pat

[38supPat]

Speaking of Terry I talked to him today, he's feeling better BTW, but stuck at home recovering. I suggested to him to pass the time he should check out this site and maybe answer some shotgun and pin oriented questions.

Pat

[Matt VDW]

I don't know which is more impressive -- a 215 PF in a .40, or getting a 300 grain bullet to feed in a .45 ACP!

Next question:  How long does it take you to clear a 5 pin table with a stock pistol -- iron sights, no comp?  Do you go flat out, or do you slow down enough to ensure solid hits to avoid "dead wood"?

[benos]

I can't remember times that well, probably because I don't care about them. The last thing you want is "dead wood," so you should shoot at a pace that takes each pin off with one hit, without going ridiculously slow, of course. You'll just have to experiment with that one to see what works for you.

be

[Patrick Sweeney]

Matt,

Stock times on pins?  A winning time for a Master Blaster would be something like 15 seconds for five table, thus three second tables.  We're talking one of the Jerry's, Brian, the real killers.  For a Master Blaster with feet of clay (yours truly) an 18-19-20 second total is a fast run, in the money, but not spectacular.  Thus, four seconds flat.  The "in the loot" times for an OSS at Second chance were times under 24-25, or five seconds flat.

These are stopwatch times, timed to the last pin hitting the ground.  If you're using an electronic timer, add .3 to each run, on average.

The ONLY way to clear pins fast is one shot, one hit.  The only pin that requires a second hit (done properly) is the last one, and that is to speed its exit.

When you can get to four-flat, with a Stock gun using a 200 PF my son, you are a man.  Or at least, a full-fledged pin shooter. Now, go out and do it in a match.

Patrick

[zhunter]

. was just testing and deleted the test

Edited March 4, 2007 by zhunter

[P.E. Kelley]

I seem to recall a ditty that applies.

If the tables are lame load for big game.

If the tables are metal ease up on the petal.

Otto?

Ayoob?

I never shot Second Chance (damn!) but I did run and shoot monthly pin shoots for

8+ years. I too favored 265 grain flat point 45 ACP loads that I think I gleaned from

Mr. Sweeney.

Beat the holy snot out of an old US property marked Ithaca 1911 but as long as I

did my part she never left wood on the table.

I remember running the tiered table faster (or at least more consistently) than the

flat tables.

Man I miss pin shoots.

Patrick (the other one)

[BSmith]

Bobby (Gene) Carver and I shot 230 jhp .45 loaded to 230 pf in both spacegun and stock gun classes at Second Chance. Bobby set many records and was always a contender in all Masterblaster gun categories. I struggled along in OSS.

When Brian Enos talks of one shot one pin, all I can remember is how those hot 230 jhp rounds would levitate a pin and slam it straight to the back stop, even with a side hit. Of course, by the end of a 1000 round week we had to work on our tendinitis.

Boy, I really miss the independent state of Second Chance- it was a magic place at a magic time. The bonfire evenings were the best.

Best regards, Brian Smith

ps- I had more luck at other pin matches shooting 195 pf .38 super ipsc loads. The gun was more controllable, but you surely had to hit the magic sweet spot in the center of the pin. The 230 pf rounds, there was more room for error in pin hits. Except for the time I blew up a gun on the line with a double charge- that's a different story for a different day

[Rennie]

Shot placement is more important , High power factor loads make up for offcenter shots.I started shooting pins with a .45 shooting 255gr and won the winchester shootoff with .45 and 200 gr jhp's.

[joecichlid]

Pin shooting is a blast, please forgive the pun. With a good 225 or 230 grain bullet, a glancing blow can give you a killer pin action. Nothing like watching a fresh pin doing figure-8's off of the table. Or getting just on the very edge, it will shoot off the table rolling on a bit of the base. Feel free to check out some of the videos on the Mid-West Pinblasters web site. I hope to get some new ones up sometime this week.

Joe W.

[Mr Twisted]

Joe when to your site, it loads for a few minutes and then disappears.

[joecichlid]

That is weird. It did it for me to, the host must be having some issues or something because I can't even log into Tripod to work on the site. My guess is that the issue should be corrected in the next few hours, I hope.

Joe W.

[mikegot38]

What sort of power level do you like to use for a bowling pin match?  (Assume that you have to balance power against controllability without the use of a compensator.)

I know a few guys who believe in the "More is better" theory and they seem to be on a never-ending quest to load more powder underneath bigger bullets.  But I've found that a well-centered hit from a "normal" .40 S&W (180 grains at about 900 fps) will push a pin off a table just fine, though not as violently as the hotter loads will.

What do you think?  

Use a .45 with a 225 or 255 grain bullets at about 750 Ft/sec

[Carmoney]

I was always in the "more is better" camp. My load for years was a 230-gr. .357 bullet from an 8-3/8" S&W Model 27 at about 1050 fps. So we're talking 240+ power factor, boys! It worked well for me--I never won high overall at Second Chance, but I did manage to finish second one year, just ahead of Miculek and just behind Tapp.

Those "Lincoln Log" loads won me an awful lot of loot over the years at various pin matches. Of course, that was back in a different time and place, when the world had pin matches. (sniff)