can't mail handgun

[Rob Boudrie]

QUOTE (Precision40 @ May 14 2004, 12:21 PM)

Disassemble the pistol and ship it UPS or FedEx as "machine parts" I've done it for years with no problems. 

And you are committing a felony every time you do it.

Quote what (state or federal) criminal code item was violated, and quote that it is a felony.

--Detlef

I will let the BATF and the postal inspectors do that.

Common sense:

If you have to have an FFL to ship through the post office, taking a gun apart and calling it machine parts is not making any difference. It is still shipping a gun without using an FFL and you haven't been able to do that since they passed the laws in the 60's after kennedy was killed with a mail order rifle. You may not get caught but if you do, jail time will be in your future.

The original poster mentioned UPS and Fedex, so I doubt the postal inspectors will be interested in answering the question.

[reneet]

Disassemble the pistol and ship it UPS or FedEx as "machine parts"  I've done it for years with no problems.

And you are committing a felony every time you do it.

No crime commited here. The Gun Control Act of 1968 specifically states that individuals may ship their firearms to manufacturers/gunsmiths for repair or conversion. As I stated previously, UPS web site is in error and I'm currently working with my UPS representative to get it fixed.

======================================

FROM THE ATF Web Site's FAQ

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U. S. Postal Service? [back]

A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state. The Postal Service recommends that longguns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.

(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier? [back]

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be

used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract

carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]

========================================

I personally ship my pistols in 2 separate boxes (slide assy in one / grip frame assy in the other) by UPS Ground insured. UPS does not consider either of these packages to be a firearm. The only change that UPS made in recent history (1999 I think) was to require that a handgun be shipped using their NEXT DAY service when available.

[Detlef]

this is becoming more interesting by the minute. What you just quoted appears to answer my question. You have quoted ATF rules that would make shipping a gun (by ATF definition the frame is the gun) w/o declaring it as such to the carrier illegal.

It seems this would prevent you from disassembling the gun and not declaring the numbered frame/receiver as gun to UPS although UPS's own company rules on what constitues a firearm, and how that would affect your shipping and pricing options, could well be different.

This seems to be the nail in the coffin of the *machine parts* and *disassembled-firearm-is-not-a-firearm* shipping options?

A lot of *seems*, but did I get it right?

--Detlef

[Carlos]

Detlef: you got it right. Serial numbered part = firearm. Parts added to it are meaningless to the definition of "firearm" (with certain NFA parts exceptions not relevant here). Fon non-serial numbered firearms its the receiver (yes there are such things in the US & yes they are legal to own but lets not go there either).

As ATFE has said on their website: "Handguns are not mailable." I.e.m they must be shipped, not mailed (unless FFL to FFL). Shipped?? How? By common carrier. Who's that? United Parcel Service, FedEx & others excluding the United States Postal Service.

USPS = mailed

UPS/FedEx = shipped by common carrier

Rob wrote: "You need to check the common carrier statutes. "

Actually, no. That does not respond to the scenario I described which was: "non-FFL holding person who receives the gun & they are now considered the owner in MD - not you." (see my post above).

The common carrier does not "receive" the handgun shipped to MD. Rather, the person to whom it is addressed "receives" it from the carrier when its dropped off & is then considered the transferee. Put another way, it does not matter how long the common carrier actually has the handgun in their possession; it is not transferred to them. Ship it to a friend or family member & they are now in possession of the gun & in violation of MD law. Have it dropped off & waiting for you at your hotel & who is resposible for it - FedEx? Of course not. Its possessed by the hotel who is neither an employee or agent of the common carrier & thus not covered by the statutes you mentioned. Nor is the hotel authorized under State law to be the transferee of a handgun shipped from out of state. I am not aware of any "unopened package rule" in MD so merely putting your name on the package would not appear to allow you to circumvent MD law. When in MD, you are subject to MD law as to the transfer of handguns from out of state.

Again, sorry there is little good news in this discussion when it comes to mailing handguns around the country. This would appear to be a suitable topic for an NRA online guide though it would have to be updated with every change in State law to be useful.

[John Kane]

Not sure what the forum etiquette is on this but I just wanted to say thanks to all the people that have posted in this thread. I found it through a search and it has saved me hours of research on how to legally ship a handgun.

I just sent mine priority over night through FedEx to an FFL and even declared it to them as a firearm, so all is well.

Thanks again for keeping me out of jail!

John

[mike_pinto]

Glad you got it worked out.. I sent a gun in two packages via UPS. All they asked is if the gun could be fired if one of the packages were opened. When I explained that the slide was in one and the frame in another, there was no problem..

Mike

[AGYoung]

To me a firearm is a precision machine part and since nobody asked to see what was in the box, it went to UPS, got shipped ground and arrived at the destination (the manufacture of said firearm) as it should.

What the heck is wrong with that?

Edited June 30, 2006 by AGYoung

[ima45dv8]

To me a firearm is a precision machine part and since nobody asked to see what was in the box, it went to UPS, got shipped ground and arrived at the destination (the manufacture of said firearm) as it should.

What the heck is wrong with that?

Nothing, until they lose the package and you have to make a claim. You're at risk based on whether or not they want to challenge the claim by saying the package contents were not properly identified.

I don't like the system the way it is, but the track record for lost shipments is too high for me to take that chance.

[Keninaz]

I just shipped my (fully assembled) blaster to the mfg. via UPS (Next Day Air) no problem. They didn't even ask what was inside the box. They looked at the sealed box, looked at the shipping lable and said "your done" and I was gone. I wish it was this easy all the time.

Ken

[JFlowers]

The problem with the common carriers is their complete and utter lack of internal consistency. Half the time, the person behind the counter barely managed to scrape together enough hours to get out of high school much less get a dipolma. I have found that at the first signs of trouble, I ask for the supervisor. They typically are a bit older and you can work through the rules with them.

Heck, I have found that the local gunshop folk are just about as bad. I wanted to ship a pre-1898 Reichsrevolver to a collector in Texas. After dancing with UPS, I got fed up and went to my local gunshop to have them ship it out. So I hear "Thats will be $$$ shipping and $40 transfer fee." And off we go again! This is not a firearm. This is just a hunk of metal by Federal Law. No transfer! I finally had to get the shop owner involved. I hate the multi-layered mass of rules and policies they have created just to do a simple thing like ship a piece of metal.

[Lee Bell]

What a bunch of horse pucky you guys! YOU can send YOUR gun anywhere you want to! To yourself, to a friend to hold for you, to a gunsmith, pretty much anywhere! Where are all these stupid rules coming from?

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/index.htm