jerryballs Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) I am loading minor 9mm for my STI open gun. The minor load is as follows: 1.060 oal federal small magnum pistol primers 4.6 grn w231 hornady HAP 125grn bullets starline brass (new) I am getting some bulge on my case..not major (see pic). Is this caused by the magnum primers and the low seat of the bullet? Seems to be bulged more on the side that is nicked by the chamber I am also getting a nick in the base of the case from my chamber which hasn't done this before...What should I be looking at? I am pretty new to relaoding 9mm and fairly new to reloading period..So your help is much appreciated! Jerry Edited September 9, 2011 by jerryballs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 1.060 seems awfully short. My 9 major gun will take oal's out to 1.170 I don't use 231 but is that load a published load? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaGunner Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 4.6grns seems high for 231. The length is to short. Have you chronographed this load? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I don't think that you should get any bulge on a minor 9mm load. Bulge is one of the high pressure warnings. My 9mm minor rounds are 1.142. I agree with Roy and Yoshidaex that your length seems a little short. Also I use regular small pistol primers for minor loads. It seems like magnum pistol primers would be overkill for minor 9mm. I don't know if that is a published load but I recommend finding a published load and starting about 15% under...Find a chrono and slowly work your way up till your happy. Safety first! Just my two cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryballs Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 I don't think that you should get any bulge on a minor 9mm load. Bulge is one of the high pressure warnings. My 9mm minor rounds are 1.142. I agree with Roy and Yoshidaex that your length seems a little short. Also I use regular small pistol primers for minor loads. It seems like magnum pistol primers would be overkill for minor 9mm. I don't know if that is a published load but I recommend finding a published load and starting about 15% under...Find a chrono and slowly work your way up till your happy. Safety first! Just my two cents Its a published load for the hornady manual on 125 gr ...minus the magnum primers. I figured they were the culprit. Thanks for the help. I will resize, and drop some powder and re-evaluate. Thanks! Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Maximum Load for 231 is 4.8gr based on 1.090" at 1.060" you are by my very rough guestimate about .1 to .2gr oveer what I would load. I think with that projectile the previous posters OAL of 1.14" is best. Get thee to a chrono. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Is this a new or used gun? What brand of barrel? Just a thought but if it's used, is it possible the chamber was opened up a bit to help with feeding? Take the barrel out and drop a round into the chamber. See if the round sits in the chamber just right or too loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whistlepig Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 OAL does seem short...... As far as confirming if it is mechanical (shape of chamber) or physical (pressure or burning rate) compare by firing the same load in a diff gun. close comparison of fired cases from both guns will be good info. I also agree with get it chrono'd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Is this a new or used gun? What brand of barrel? Just a thought but if it's used, is it possible the chamber was opened up a bit to help with feeding? Take the barrel out and drop a round into the chamber. See if the round sits in the chamber just right or too loose. Agree. That load shouldn't be a problem from my experience... although I did load mine longer. I will say that I've used range brass that looked like that without any issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 First Glock bulge, now we have the dreaded STI bulge! The load does not seem too radical but I would reevaluate it like the others have said. Could be the chamber since my 9MAJOR loads don't bulge at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 There is no reason to load that short for an STI Open gun. I would run my OAL out to 1.150 (You go has long as 1.168). You should not get any bulge on a minor load. Not sure if the HAP are round nose or not, but a round nose will seat deeper in the case than a JHP. The deeper the bullet seats, the greater the pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Its a published load for the hornady manual on 125 gr ...minus the magnum primers. I figured they were the culprit. Thanks for the help. I will resize, and drop some powder and re-evaluate. Thanks! Jerry Let us know how it goes! I forgot to ask...Does the same thing happen with factory ammo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 According to Quickload this is a grossly overcharged load, with the peak pressures reaching 54,000psi. Increasing the COL to the proper 1.160 drops the pressure down to normal level. Let's not forget, 9mm is VERY sensitive to bullet depth, due to small volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 According to Quickload this is a grossly overcharged load, with the peak pressures reaching 54,000psi. Increasing the COL to the proper 1.160 drops the pressure down to normal level. Let's not forget, 9mm is VERY sensitive to bullet depth, due to small volume. Is that correct? Hodgdon has the following posted: 125 GR. SIE FMJ Winchester 231 .355" 1.090" 4.4 1009 24,600 CUP 4.8 1088 28,800 CUP Your Quickload is showing almost double cup pressures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 We can, and should, question the accuracy of both sources. I once had several case ruptures from the load specified as maximum, but safe. When I chrono'd it I discovered it was quite a bit faster than the manufacturer's tables suggested. That is why every manufacturer suggests starting low, working up. There are too many variations affecting the load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Copy. Lets see what the OP comes back with in regards to gun condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Primers are not the cause of your issue. Check how much the chamber is supporting your case and as the others said lengthen your OAL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryballs Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 Copy. Lets see what the OP comes back with in regards to gun condition. Thanks for everything guys...trying two things: 1.145 oal and 4.1 grn and then grabbing buddies chrono and going from there. I had the gun built by Jojo vidanes, as far as i know the chamber hasn't been opened up. I will report back later! Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Jojo knows his stuff esp with open 9's. You should really give him a call to discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Looking at the picture my hunch is that someone enlarged the chamber for better feeding, be nice to know the interior diameter of the chamber. The load is short but I don't see 4.8gr of W231 with a 125 as a dangerous load, outside the chart maybe but not excessive. Paying close attention to the post, New to Reloading, there could be a hidden issue like the "scale" being off. I had a frankfort aresnal digital scale try to blowmeup one time, that is why I cross check the final settings on a beam scale. Also I actually weigh my bullets before I start loading, a 147 looks a lot like a 125 or 115. A SAMMI spec 9 mm chamber should be able to handle a RN oal of 1.165, factory ammo is 1.140 most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryballs Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 Looking at the picture my hunch is that someone enlarged the chamber for better feeding, be nice to know the interior diameter of the chamber. The load is short but I don't see 4.8gr of W231 with a 125 as a dangerous load, outside the chart maybe but not excessive. Paying close attention to the post, New to Reloading, there could be a hidden issue like the "scale" being off. I had a frankfort aresnal digital scale try to blowmeup one time, that is why I cross check the final settings on a beam scale. Also I actually weigh my bullets before I start loading, a 147 looks a lot like a 125 or 115. A SAMMI spec 9 mm chamber should be able to handle a RN oal of 1.165, factory ammo is 1.140 most of the time. i am also using the digital franfort aresnal scale, and the rcbs 10-10 scale... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 If Jojo put the gun together for you, I'm guessing its either a STI trubor barrel or a regular STI barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 28000CUP is aprox equivalent to 35000PSI. 54000PSI is equvalent to about 44000PSI, not a linear or direct comparison / conversion. CUP is based on how much a copper disk is compressed between two pieces of material. PSI is obtained by Piezo Electric Strain gauges on the barrel and or chamber. Pressure for cartridges is rapidly exponential once you reach the theoretical safe maximum. .1gr will increase pressure by as much as 5000PSI if already over maximum. OAL that short is essentially like using a powder charge of about .5gr over what you are really using. 9mm has a long history of pressure related issues with very short OAL. AS oreviously stated here and in other posts on this forum. UNTIL, we have relaible chronograph data and comparison brass from factory laods in the same firearm you guys are like me. 8000Miles from the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g56 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 I've been loading 4.6 gr of WW231 behind a 115 gr jacketed bullet for at least the last 25 years, I don't recall the OAL offhand, here's my chrono on that load in my Beretta Mod 92, 5" bbl. 9/28/2006 115 gr hollow point Fed primer 70 degrees 4.6 gr WW231 Beretta 92 1 1107.00- 1079.00 2 1073.00- 1111.00 3 1074.00- 1063.00 4 1088.00- 1107.00 5 1113.00- 1079.00 6 1059.00- 1089.00 7 1110.00- 1100.00 8 1092.00- 1086.00 9 1065.00- 1104.00 10 1106.00- 1086.00 Avgvel 1089.00- 1091.00 High 1113.00- 1111.00 Low 1059.00- 1061.00 ES 54.00- 45.60 SD 20.10- 14.50 AD 17.00- 11.90 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Ok, now that we know JoJo did the gun, we can rule out a chamber problem. Here is a know safe load that will work for you in that gun. Minor 124/5gr Jacketed RN or JHP OAL 1.145 5.2gr of AutoComp w 115gr 5.6gr AC. With your magnum primers drop it to 5.1 or not. When you get ready for major bump the oal to 1.165 and crank the powder up to about 7 gr. What do the primers look like, if they are flowing you will be needing a new slide soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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