rpm28 Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I've been looking for VV N320, but can't find it on the shelf anywhere in south central PA. So I started a search for another powder that's stocked locally. My thoughts are going with IMR SR7625, as I have some reliable load data for that powder. I am intrigued with W231 and also AA powder's since they have specific publicized load data for plated bullets. What I don't understand is the difference SR7625 is listed on various burn rate charts....one site has it at #27- faster than 231 / HP-38, and another chart has it listed at #40, between PP & HS-6....seems like quite a variance. What gives? Am I overthinking this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic_jon Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Yes you are and no you are not overthinking it. :-) The burn rate charts are done per manufacturer and they may move things around a little to suit that particular batch of powder. Also, some of the powders are *exceedingly close* in burn rates so if you look at all of the burn rate charts you should notice the same powders in the same burn ranges on all of them. Do not, I repeat do not use the burn rate chart to work up a load. It is there as an indicator of the speed of the powder and that is it. If you can not find any N320 I would look for Solo 1000 or titegroup. That being said, be aware that those powders have different temperature sensitivities and performance characteristics so you will need to work up a good load for *your gun* Side note: I tried SR7625 and in an uncompensated gun I did not like it at all. I shot some in someones open gun with a comp with a major load and it was pretty nice. Others here have used it with some success so YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 I feel your pain about finding N320. I got hooked on it too but I order only the 4lb jugs online. I hate to say it but I haven't found anything quite like N320. 231 is a good powder, used it for years but still not like N320. What are you shooting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 I use N320 and TiteGroup interchangably. The exact grains weight, but obviously the 320 is bulkier. I mainly use them in 38Super (Minor), 9mm and 45ACP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 When you say "interchangeably" do you mean "the exact same powder charge gives me the exact same velocities"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpm28 Posted September 8, 2011 Author Share Posted September 8, 2011 I feel your pain about finding N320. I got hooked on it too but I order only the 4lb jugs online. I hate to say it but I haven't found anything quite like N320. 231 is a good powder, used it for years but still not like N320. What are you shooting? I'm running 124 RN Berry's in a CZ75 Shadow T....also looking at trying some 135 gr Berry's as well. The reason I got fixated on the burn chart, is because I was looking for something comparable to N320. I suppose using the chart for that purpose isn't the best practice. I don't really need to make minor,our shoots aren't sanctioned, although I am eyeing maybe trying a steel match or USPSA match at another club down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 I feel your pain about finding N320. I got hooked on it too but I order only the 4lb jugs online. I hate to say it but I haven't found anything quite like N320. 231 is a good powder, used it for years but still not like N320. What are you shooting? I'm running 124 RN Berry's in a CZ75 Shadow T....also looking at trying some 135 gr Berry's as well. The reason I got fixated on the burn chart, is because I was looking for something comparable to N320. I suppose using the chart for that purpose isn't the best practice. I don't really need to make minor,our shoots aren't sanctioned, although I am eyeing maybe trying a steel match or USPSA match at another club down the road. I'm shooting a Shadow custom, I ran out of N320 and a few other powders. I went back to old reliable, 135gr BayouBullet with 4.0gr of WST set at 1.145 130pf avg. WST is cheap clean and can be found almost everywhere. It works very well in 40 and 45 with Moly or Bayou bullets, not as good with Jacketed. Imr7625 works well with 124gr Jacketed, a bit snappy compared to N320 but nicer than factory. WST is similar to 231. WST is a bit reverse temp sensative but consistent lot to lot, unlike Solo 1000. BayouBullets don't smoke and the accuracy is very good, almost as good as the Zero JHP's, my gun likes the 147gr JHP's very small group at 25 yards with N320. Burn rates are confusing at best, I like to judge based on load data, if it takes 7.0 gr of A and B only takes 4.0 gr then A is definately a lot slower powder. This isn't a 100% but neither are the burn rates. Combine the two and you get an idea. If you want a Mousefart load then drop the WST down to 3.8 gr with a 124gr bullet, it will normally run the gun and make a ding when it hits steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpm28 Posted September 8, 2011 Author Share Posted September 8, 2011 Thanks for the WST info, Ron. I got more than one person telling me about Solo1000, but like you mentioned, I'm not digging the lot to lot variance. Does AA#2 share the same characteristics as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 case volume and pressure can effect burn rate as well. Different test barrels, cases, and load density can effect this, Burn rate charts get you in the ballpark, this powder is fast, this powder is medium, this other powder is slow. WST is a close powder in performance and characteristics to 320, Its dirtier at low pressure and looses some velocity as ambient temperature increases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Ryder Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I am a IMR SR7625 fan for 9mm. 4.6 grains behind a MG 124 grain CMJ, loaded out to 1.150. Power Factor 131ish in a XDM 9mm 4.5 inch. up it to 4.7 if you want to run a 134ish PF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpm28 Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 Lots of good advice and every bit is appreciated. Thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Duane, You wording is somewhat better than mine, but yes. Same weight = same velocity between the two powders. Certainly it was so close that it was within the likely variation of one batch of reloads and another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noylj Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) The powders I like with a burn rate similar to N320 are: PB, AA2, and Zip. PB is VERY clean burning, particularly in 9x19, and I am surprised that so few have ever tried it. I also have no idea why so many DON"T use AA2--it does everything I want it to do and is tops for accuracy in my .45 target loads. Finally, ZIP very much a near clone of N320. I have no experience with 7625. The powder I wonder if it even EXISTS is N330. It is right in the burn range of Power Pistol for .40S&W and .38 Super loads, but it seems to be myth. I find in my guns that WST is a VERY fast powder, like Solo 1000. I have gotten such lousy results with it in 9x19, .38 Super, and .40 S&W, that I wonder if I got a "bad" lot. It is absolute trash EXCEPT for mild target (850fps) loads using 115-124gn bullets in .38 Super. Even then, it isn't better than some other powders. Edited September 9, 2011 by noylj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 N330 was the goto load for Helen Jeavons, 2008 NRA AP World Champ. Her husband swore by that stuff, and occaisionally swore at it. But now that it is like the Loch Ness monster, some evidence that it exists but no one has seen it for a while, he has switched to TG. For something really fast try Norma R1, nasty shit in a 9mm. Titewad is very similar to the old Trap100 (may be old 452AA) that Hodgdon made when Adam was in three cornered trousers, I found it was OK for bullseye loads in 32 and 38spl. But not so flash in 9mm. 38Super with light bullets and 45ACP with up to 200gr, but pressures were stupid if you got too excited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpm28 Posted September 10, 2011 Author Share Posted September 10, 2011 I gotta ask you guys....does the search for the "Holy Grail" of recipes ever end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Ryder Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 I gotta ask you guys....does the search for the "Holy Grail" of recipes ever end? Nope! For 9 minor, it is N320. 4.2 grains behind a MG 124 CMJ AOL 1.150, in Remington range brass. I have chronoed multiple times with Standard deviations of 3, and extreme spreads of 10. Power factor 130.4 to 131.6 I don't think it gets any better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Red Ryder, If the power factor was between 125.1 and 125.2 under all conditions at all altitudes 100% of the time, reliably cycles all handguns under all conditions 100%. Then it is perfect. Until then all loads are inferior and therefore can be improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noylj Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 rpm28: the Holy Grail is not at the reloading bench, it is trigger time. No matter what the shooting sport, the most important thing is trigger time. Your load only needs to be good enough. Everything is down to that squeeze of the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Ryder Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 rpm28: the Holy Grail is not at the reloading bench, it is trigger time. No matter what the shooting sport, the most important thing is trigger time. Your load only needs to be good enough. Everything is down to that squeeze of the trigger. +1. So true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Ryder Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Red Ryder, If the power factor was between 125.1 and 125.2 under all conditions at all altitudes 100% of the time, reliably cycles all handguns under all conditions 100%. Then it is perfect. Until then all loads are inferior and therefore can be improved. Touche grasshopper's teacher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now