twister Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) I have a Dan Wesson 40, that discharged a round recently while trying to clear a jam. Apparently, the round hit the extractor and set the round off. It left a very nice reminder on my left thumb. Any help would be appreciated. Edited August 23, 2011 by twister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 As you probably figured out by now, when clearing a jam, make sure the weak hand is behind the ejection port... preferably with the meat of the palm on the rear sights. (A bunch of self defense schools teach this technique on the premise that using gross motor movements is better under stress.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twister Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 I had the rear of my slide between my thumb and index finger finger of my left hand. I took my right hand and hit the back strap, at which time the pistol fired. The bullet was laying on top of the magazine, along with the very tore up casing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooterj Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=125247&st=0&p=1415966&hl=forty%20face&fromsearch=1entry1415966 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSWEAR Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I've seen it happen before while clearing a jam,it was caused by the primer hitting the ejector. As mentioned stay away from the ejection port while clearing. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twister Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 I'm sure mine hit the extractor,what can be done to keep this from happening in the future ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Bear Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Do not apply so much force clearing the jam. Striking the back strap like you did provided enough momentum to cause the primer to strike against the ejector. My question is why did it jam to start with? What caused the cartridge to stick enough that you needed that kind of force to clear the jam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Striking the backstrap to clear out a stuck cartridge is a widely taught and well-accepted technique for getting a stuck round out of the chamber. I have done it many times myself, usually when someone else has gotten an oversized round stuck in the chamber and can't get it out. To start with, that would be no problem, the slide is just short of closing. If at that point they had simply cycled the action and gotten the round out of the chamber that would have been an easy fix. Unfortunately their solution to the problem was to try to force the action closed so they could then fire the cartridge, and that forced it into the chamber so hard that it REALLY locked up the action - but not far enough to completely close it so the round could be fired. At that point, without tools, if you want to get it done in any sort of timely fashion, holding the slide with your support hand (I come over the top of the gun and grip the slide with my fingertips and the heel of my hand) then giving the backstrap a sharp whack with the web of the master hand is a fast and easy fix. There should be nothing dangerous in this since the cartridge will simply be coming to the rear and hitting the ejector well away from the primer. The fact that's not what happened and instead the round detonated indicates to me that it was already severely canted to the side when you hit the backstrap, yes? I'm not really getting a sense of exactly what happened in your case. Was the action almost closed when you hit the backstrap, or was the action more open with the round wedged in the ejection port at an angle? How did the cartridge casing get in the mangled condition you described? What sort of bullet profile and COL? A solid? Loaded long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twister Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 The slide was almost into battery,but wouldn't close, so I tried clearing the jam by holding the slide and striking the backstrap. The brass become mangled when the round went off, out of the chamber.The rounds aren't loaded long, and I was using a flat point bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Sounds like a round that had the bullet stuck in the rifling, or a bulge somewhere that wouldnt let the round fully seat in the chamber. Had you chamber checked the ammo you were shooting ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Interesting. That shouldn't have happened. I know that's cold comfort considering it DID in fact happen. Did you try clearing out the jam with lesser, steady pressure before deciding that wouldn't work and going for the whack-the-backstrap technique? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I had the rear of my slide between my thumb and index finger finger of my left hand. I took my right hand and hit the back strap, at which time the pistol fired. The bullet was laying on top of the magazine, along with the very tore up casing. Take the mag out before attempting to clear the gun. That should be step 1. Check your extractor. It did not control the round as it should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twister Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 How do you check the extractor to see if it's working right? I haven't really done anything to the gun, so it's still stock. Thanks for all the help, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mda Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 How do you check the extractor to see if it's working right? I haven't really done anything to the gun, so it's still stock. Thanks for all the help, Dave Try the following link for information on propper adjustment of the extractor. Brazo's ejection prefection MDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Bear Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Not seeing it myself it sounds to me like the cartridge got stuck in the chamber and the slide was not able to close. The cartridge is now cocked in at an angle and striking the backstrap to clear it caused the primer to strike the nose of the top bullet in the magazine. The magazine being in place keeps everything lined up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 How do you figure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalaur Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 The only thing I can think of here is you had your slide between your thumb and forefinger like a slingshot while you were hitting the backstrap. This generally means the gun is canted to the left (ejection port UP), so when you hit the backstrap it partially ejected the round, but fell back onto the extractor and went off. Generally, when clearing these jams, you want to place the heel of your left palm on the left side of the slide, wrapping your fingers over the top to the other side (just make sure your pinky is clear of the ejection port). Then cant the gun to the right, ejection port DOWN while hitting the backstrap. This way when the round comes out it will fall to the ground instead of back into the gun. Many people are taught (or just dont know) to cant to the left while clearing jams so they can see when its clear, which IMO doesn't work as well. Canting to the right allows your jammed cartridges to fall out instead of needing to be ejected out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Bear Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 How do you figure? Having a chance to think on it, it can't if the extractor is holding the cartridge, because it cannot hit the cartridge below. This is one of those things that makes me wonder how it happened. Not so much how it went boom as much as what caused the cartridge to get stuck in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midvalleyshooter Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I saw this more often years ago when 10mm 1911's were more popular at the matches. It was more common with the 10mm simply because of the larger diameter primers. One fellow had his hand covering the ejection port when the round went off, very nasty damage. When you start whacking on guns with live ammo in them things can happen, some of them bad. Be careful. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 What I wonder is how the round got so off-center as it came to the rear that the ejector could hit the primer. Again, that doesn't seem possible. Or....thinking here....is it possible the ejector itself is located too far inboard, allowing it to hit the primer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooterj Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Ejection ports are sized for spent cases to come out. Loaded rounds usually are too long for clean extraction/ejection. If the bullet hits the leading edge of the ejection port it could dislodge it from the extractor, then it would be anybody's guess as to orientation of the round inside the slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punkin Chunker Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I have a Dan Wesson 40, that discharged a round recently while trying to clear a jam. Apparently, the round hit the extractor and set the round off. It left a very nice reminder on my left thumb. Any help would be appreciated. Was the primer indentation on the torn-up casing larger and squared off, or was it the same as a regular primer indentation? Probably more so than the WAY more experienced group already weighing in, I'm not figuring what happened -- would a weak firing pin spring make it possible for a sharp strike on the backstrap to detonate the cartridge? Has any trigger work been done that could have let the hammer drop while slightly out of battery, causing the cartridge to fire? Just spitballin' some thoughts. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob DuBois Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I've seen several times when a competitor's unloading with the magazine removed turning the pistol to the right so they could catch the loaded round in their support hand had the round go off when the round slipped off the extractor and the primer hit the ejector. The support hand was cupped over the ejection port. Ruins the brass sending small pieces into their support hand and has damaged a pistol when the bullet hit the feed ramp. This was the method I was taught years ago. I've never had a round go off but use a slow steady motion when bringing the slide to the rear. May not be the best way to clear a pistol. Safest method I've seen from a competitor here is to hold the bottom of the grip with the magazine removed and bring the slide slowly to the rear allowing the loaded round to fall down the magazine well into the strong hand. Only seen one person do that but thought it was a good method. Both hands are clear of the ejection port. The way I would clear a stuck cartridge is the same way I think you did. First hold the pistol with both hands and try to push the slide forward using both thumbs, if it didn't go forward hold the slide with your support hand while giving the frame a solid hit with with the palm of your strong hand. The round is coming out with some force and not the normal extraction. If it slips off the extractor and the primer hits the ejector, it will go off, any part of your hand exposed to the ejection port will catch the pieces of brass and gas. I've had a round go off when pouring loaded rounds from the loading bench from one bucket to another, doesn't take much to set a round off. Might consider a Lee U sizing die, should stop the bulged brass problem but that's another issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 (edited) Ejection ports are sized for spent cases to come out. Loaded rounds usually are too long for clean extraction/ejection. If the bullet hits the leading edge of the ejection port it could dislodge it from the extractor, then it would be anybody's guess as to orientation of the round inside the slide. This happened to a guy in my Strader class. The round didnt go off, but the ejector left a indention on the primer. He noticied it when the guy cleared his gun, and promptly found the round on the ground and gave us all a lesson on how to not clear the gun with our hand over the ejection port. It also happened to a friend of mine at Big Dawgs steel match last year. Except it went off and frag'd him pretty badly. Edited August 25, 2011 by DWFAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Safest method I've seen from a competitor here is to hold the bottom of the grip with the magazine removed and bring the slide slowly to the rear allowing the loaded round to fall down the magazine well into the strong hand. Only seen one person do that but thought it was a good method. Both hands are clear of the ejection port. Hand under the mag well is no safer than hand over the ejection port. Think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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