Being accurate but fast ...

[Vlad]

Hi all,

It took me a while but today I realized one particular problem holding me back. While I can soot some nice groups in slowfire, and I can take quick A shots at anything under 7 yards or so, I have a real problem shooting accurate medium shots with any degree of speed.

Basically, I can point shoot my way through close up things, I can shoot groups at medium and longer distances, but if I try to speed up at all my longer shots are crap. I think what happens is that I let the shot go before I am actually ready and my sights are not quite where I want them. I guess I've also "known" this for some time, because I also tense up on the gun which only makes the problem worth.

Example, today I shot CM 99-52 (cash n carry), and I had 2 clean misses on T3. Knowing that if I missed on the A zone I would be hitting no-shoots I went for head shots, strangled my gun, and missed wildly. The rest of my hits where A's with one or two C's. My time was craptastic due to a jam, plus it was raining, so I'm not really worried about that. What really bothered me though, was that I missed that 14 yard T3, TWICE, and I would have no problem hitting it during slowfire practice.

Any suggestion as what kind of things I should practice to work on this problem? Any particular techniques or drills that might help me?

Thanx

Vlad

[tightloop]

that is what makes this sport so damn hard. Fast and accurate are pretty far apart on the spectrum of things you do when shooting a pistol, trying to get to the point you can do both is really tough.

some days, I have it and some days I don't have it. After over a million rounds down range, I still have not figured it out completely...you are not alone...

[Flexmoney]

You are certainly not alone.

Sounds like you are shooting iron sights...and using a target focus for all of your shooting.

Shooters get away with target focus on the close stuff, but it's tough to progress up the ladder with just a target focus/speed attitude. There are just too many shoots that will require using the front sight. And, using the front sight really isn't (much) slower...but, it will sure seem that way for a while.

Teaching yourself the visual patience needed to pull your focus back to the front sight is very challenging.

Here is a dry-fire drill that I really like:

Pick out two or three distinct targets in your dry-fire area (door knobs, light switches, etc.), try to use "targets" at varying distances...snap your eyes to the target (sharp target focus)...bring the gun on target...as the gun comes on target, pull your focus back to your front sight. You need to bring the front sight into perfect focus. As soon as you get the razor sharp focus on your front sight, snap your eye to the next target. Repeat.

Your visual focus will being doing a little dance, going far to near, far to near...

[benos]

I had a long conversation this morning with a guy on the phone, who was ordering a book and some glide, which this thread reminded me of. It may not seem like it relates but to me it does.

Without going in to too much detail it basically came down to this - You'll never learn to shoot quickly beyond about 10 or 15 yards until you learn what it really means to call your shots. You must train yourself to know where every shot goes without ever looking anywhere but at your sights. Only when that's a way of life will you ever learn to shoot at longer distances quickly and confidently. Only by instantaneously knowing where the shot went simultaneous with it's firing will you be able to mentally move to shoot the next shot quickly.

be

[Vlad]

Thank you.

Actually a combination of what Brian and Flex are talking about is what I think is happening and what I need to to about it. The lack of visiual patience on my part doesn't allow me to call my shots. I think I can call my shots when shooting groups, as it is rare that I am surprised about where the wholes in the paper are, but Brian is obsolutly right that I do not call my shots at those long shots. My type 3 focus (as THE BOOK calls it) leaves a lot to be desired.

I think the exercise that Flex recommened might help, as well as some of those from the eye workout thread. Time to dryfire.

Vlad

PS: Thanx Brian, both for this place without which questions like this would have no place to be asked, and for your book, which always seems to answer some questions that bother me. I should no better and go read the correct chapter again, before I try to figure it myself.

[Flexmoney]

Vlad,

Pay particular attention to exactly what Brian posted. What I posted was simply a technique...Brian posted the the raw fundamental. That really ought to be read...and re-read...until it is burned in and crystal clear.

Compare what BE said with what you posted:

BE: Only by instantaneously knowing where the shot went simultaneous with it's firing...

I think I can call my shots when shooting groups, as it is rare that I am surprised about where the wholes in the paper are...

I underlined a few key words. Words that could realy make a huge difference.

Try the dry-fire technique I gave you, and really let what Brian said soak in. Play with that at the range a bit.

Be sure to come back and let us know how it is going. (Might have some live-fire drills for you to try later on. )

[HoMiE]

There's that F word again.

[Vlad]

Now THAT is a necro post!

[Hi-Power Jack]

Shooting paper targets (IPSC) is a lot of fun, with

lots of margins for error - if I fire two quick shots

at the paper target, I'm not too unhappy if the shots

are nine inches off center, because I still hit the target,

as long as I hit it quickly.

You can't do that with any type of reactive target - you

either hit it or miss it.

I find that spending some ammo hitting reactive targets

is very good for The Basics - sight and trigger control.

If I don't watch the sights or if I jerk the trigger too much,

I MISS the target.

I have a set of swinging steel plates (eight inches) and I

set them downrange and shoot them as quickly as I can

keep the sights together and pull thru the trigger.

When you start out from shooting paper, you'll miss a lot

of times. After a few hours (over the course of a few days)

you'll be hitting the steel a lot more, and your sight/trigger

control will be much better.

Still have to throw in some paper shooting practice, or you'll

shoot too slowly.

[pjb45]

I have been shooting groups lately. I am trying to improve my ability to call my shoots. Typically, I will set up five paper plates and paint a black dot on them. My group shooting under 15 yrds is pretty good. When I get to 18-25 yrds it starts to go down hill. Some of this is because of my eyesight. But I have noticed some things. I can call the shoot that hits the black mark. I know when that shot breaks, it is on the mark. This recognition happens once or twice a string. All other shoots are off the black mark. I get annoyed when my group shooting size starts to spread out. I might have two called shoots, then about an inch away I will have six or seven in a 1.5 inch group, and then I might have a flyer--which I do call. I will practice this for 100-200 rounds. Depending on what caliber I am shooting. I do a lot of .22 work. Then I will proceed to do the same drill with weak and strong hands.

Additionally, I have been working with a Master shooter on a .22 plate rack. The plates are much smaller than a normal plate rack. We are usually out about 18yards. This has really helped! We use a Par time. No extra shots. This has slowed down the first shot and you really have to confirm your sight picture. The focus on the front sight is paramount. Any deviation from the correct shooting cycle causes a miss. With instant notification.

Don Golembieski of Kodiak Precison once said, your speed is determined by the quality of your sight picture. When you can acquire the correct sight picture, break the shot without disturbing the sight picture, and then calling it, you will be able to shoot faster more accurately. The problem as I have experienced it, is that our local matches reward speed much more than accuracy, so when we get to a major match we do not shoot as well as we do in our local matches. I believe this is because in the bigger matches accuracy plays a more important role is determing overall standings. I believe our local matches actually reinforce what Mike Seeklander calls training scars. We develop bad habits in training, they get rewarded in local matches and come back to haunt us in major matches.

[uscbigdawg]

pjb45,

First, don't get discouraged if your groups open up during the drills you've stated above. Remember the intent of them is to work on shot calling not accuracy. The order of progression that you stated Don G. told you is just that. Learn the mechanics of shooting first. Then accuracy. Then being able to call that shot. Speed WILL COME after that.

Too, in local matches, do not worry about results. They are insignificant to your shooting. There are a number of times where I have been disappointed about a performance on a stage and later found out I won that stage. Did it make me happy? Not really, because I know what I could have done. Too, this last Sunday actually, shot a stage well, didn't push, but didn't follow through on one shot and when I was finished knew that it was not only a miss but a no-shoot. On that stage I was 3 seconds faster than the next person but the 20 points (or 25 depending how you want to look at it) in penalties dropped me to 6th. In the end, POINTS ALWAYS MATTER.

Shoot your game and keep workin' the skills that will get you there and worry less on match results. Try to shoot your game at its best.

Rich