Jody Waring Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Rounds flipping up during feeding. Happens only with "fat" profile bullets like the 147's, and also with Frontier 124 RN. Measured feedlips of mags, all seems good there. OAL for ammo is the norm lengths of 1.100"- 1.120". Bullets like Winchester and MG's in 124 feed like a dream. Anyone ever have this problem with their Shadow? I know many are using heavy bullets with no problems, and I have a modded slidestop as well for the heavy bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fueddy Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I had this happen to me last sunday in the middle of a stage. How are your mag and recoil spring? My only guess was that I had a light round and it didn't cycle the slide 100% and grabbed the rd in the middle or offset? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Waring Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 Mags are brand new as is the recoil spring. I considered the load being light, my open gun has had malfunctions like this before if it was over sprung, but ammo making 130+ power factor should be hot enough to cycle an 11 pound spring shouldn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningsquirrels Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 try a 10# or a worn out recoil spring for even lighter. 147s can be real soft shooting at 130pf. other than that, most people i know use 1.090 or 1.080 in their czs. i've done it and haven't had any problems? maybe time to chrono again? check powder drop weights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Waring Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 Chronographed ammo, 124 was at 135 pf, 132 for the 147 and my cast 147 was 132-133 pf. Everything seems fairly consistent, bit I am going to either try lighter springs or up the pf of my ammo. The shorter oal is something I will have to experiment with too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob DuBois Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Try loading your rounds a little longer 1.140. My Trojan didn't like short ammo and would act like your problem. Good rule load as lond a round as will run in the magazine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningsquirrels Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 ^^^ yes, but also don't forget to start out with a dummy and chamber check it. depending on bullet shape you also want to make sure it's not sitting on the rifling. i had that with some when i was shopping around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Waring Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 The problem a lot of the time you have to start out short right of the start just to keep the bullet from engaging the rifling. I know a guy loading as short as 1.050" but wow that's short! To me you would almost think that the shorter ammo would be what would give you the problems. I would like to be able to have the freedom to switch to whatever bullet I could get my hands on and not have to stick with the one or two I have on hand now, and may not always be able to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningsquirrels Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 if availability is the primary concern, MG never runs out and is always to your door in a week. a few bucks more per K, but if you find people to go in on multiple case orders (6+) there's a discount. also at area matches where MG sponsors sometimes they have a flyer with a generous discount on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Waring Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 You guys in the USA are so lucky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningsquirrels Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 ah, crap, sorry. i didn't see your location. lol surely there has to be someone up there with a constant flow? where do the rest of hte ipsc guys get their stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 What do you actually mean by "rounds flipping up"? I am running AIMs and CamPro 147gr bullets in my Shadow with OAL 1.110..1.125 no problem. You have to watch magazine lips (they spread too easy on CZ 10 round mags) and also keep the PF above 135. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Waring Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 What do you actually mean by "rounds flipping up"? I am running AIMs and CamPro 147gr bullets in my Shadow with OAL 1.110..1.125 no problem. You have to watch magazine lips (they spread too easy on CZ 10 round mags) and also keep the PF above 135. The round hits the feed ramp and instead of being chambered it flips upward, and when the slide comes forward the round ends up: projectile looking almost straight up. If I use for example BDX 124 fmj, it runs like a champ. It's pretty confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorDanO Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I had the same issue at Double Tap last month. It wasn't the mags as it happened with new ones and old ones. I had just started using a new 130 gr bullet and when I got home I checked the length and they were really short, about 1.050. Loaded up a new batch at 1.100 and everything has worked so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Wish I could help but my CZ-75 has been totally reliable with every bullet weight and shape. It even used some long loaded (1.160") 147 gr. FMJ reloads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Waring Posted July 15, 2011 Author Share Posted July 15, 2011 It is weird. I loaded some of the Frontier 124s to 1.090"and shot a couple of matches, and had no problems at all. Shot a match last night and had double feeds, so it's like the rounds are releasing way to early at the short oal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powder Finger Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 The problem a lot of the time you have to start out short right of the start just to keep the bullet from engaging the rifling. I know a guy loading as short as 1.050" but wow that's short! To me you would almost think that the shorter ammo would be what would give you the problems. I would like to be able to have the freedom to switch to whatever bullet I could get my hands on and not have to stick with the one or two I have on hand now, and may not always be able to get. You can always have the leade cut longer to run different bullets without hitting the rifling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon9 Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 One of my friends was having a similar intermittent feed problem and I believe it turned out to be a small burr on the extractor. I will ask her when I see her at work today and get back to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon9 Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 One of my friends was having a similar intermittent feed problem and I believe it turned out to be a small burr on the extractor. I will ask her when I see her at work today and get back to you. I just spoke with her. She went through the whole mag/feed lip/OAL troubleshooting, drove her crazy. It ended up being a small burr/file flap that was causing the round to flip up when it would hit the feed ramp as the extractor was pushing it in an odd manner. The Custom Shop removed the burr and it has been 100% for weeks now. I hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Waring Posted July 15, 2011 Author Share Posted July 15, 2011 Wow it could be that. A bur on the extractor? I will have to pull it and have a look. Thanks a lot this could be my answer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huskerlrrp Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 (edited) It could also be hitting your slide release (just an idea). The Shadow Custom I have, has had the profile ground down and I did the same on my stainless (just to be sure). Edited July 15, 2011 by huskerlrrp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeZer Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Jody, that was a very good point - to check your extractor. It's easy to overlook. I actually made the 'gap' a little wider on mine as some brass (Win white box seems to be getting blame) had 'thicker' 'rim' than the others. I beveled it as well. Rob actually had same issue once, same that you are having. But only once, during a match I wasn't at. Well, he has 3 Shadows to play with now I still think mine is the best out of the 8 we were shooting last night We had very interesting night, shooting outside till 22:00+ I couldn't see nothing (reminds me the joke about double negative being negative and double positive being.. still negative; like an expression - "yeaaaah, riiight...") past 20-30 feet in the dark; 13 paper and 3 plates, partial too... then we used SureFire light mounted to rail... it actually helped a ton, metric ton, standard ton - I don't care, it helped a lot!!! It was first time I saw Shadow Adam Tyc Edition too; it had glossy polished frame - beavertail, underside of trigger guard and such; I don't think I'd like that on my gun. It was sprinkling out as well... and those mosquitoes... as I said - it was fun Hmm.. I may be going to Finland for a while for work, gotta figure it out how to take my gun/s with me so I can still practice some; young guys are really breathing into back of the neck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1SOW Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 If you haven't done it, I also recommend the chamber check to determine the "MAX" usable oal for that bullet in that chamber. Use a spent unsized case and seat a bullet by hand enough to hold straight in the case. Hand feed it slowly into the bbl chamber until the case mouth seats firmly. Measure the oal. This is where the bullet is "contacting the lands or cone. Subtract about .015" and that will be your MAXIMUM oal. Do the test a few times to get reliable numbers. It doesn't take long at all. Hope this makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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