drysideshooter Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) I have searched and read everything I can find on dual purpose guns. I am currently shooting USPSA production class with a 9mm. I also recently got hooked on Steel Challenge. My eyes aren't once they once were. I have a Dawson fiber optic front sight, and it helps a lot, but I can tell that an optic is probably in my future. I would like to continue to shoot both sports, and an optic would require a move to open. Since the SV/Infinity and STI type guns are not inexpensive I would really like to have something that could make major PF for USPSA and also shoot a minor PF load for steel. What are opinions on the best options? I have heard of some SV guns that use a 38 super barrel and a comp for USPSA and then a 9mm barrel with a comp for steel. I already have a bunch of 9mm brass and reloading stuff, so using some of that would be great. If there is a gun that could shoot both 9mm major and 9mm minor and function by changing out springs, or barrels, comps, etc., that would be great for me. Thanks in advance for any thoughts and advice. I realize most of the good smiths are out a ways on builds, so I'm trying to think ahead and get something ordered before my eyes tell me I "need it now". Edited May 12, 2011 by drysideshooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Hello: I would buy a STI Tru Bor in 9mm and shoot Open division and Steel Challenge. I use 115 grain bullets for both just change out the powder charge. I have also used a 95 grain Montana Gold bullet for steel. I don't even have to change out the 9lb ISMI recoil spring. If your eyes are getting worse like all of us then try a C-More with a 12MOA dot. Turn the dot intencity up or down depending on what you like. I shoot steel with it turned up and it is almost as bright as the sun Using a Tru Bor for your first open pistol will get you used to an Open pistol and then you can change things on it to suit you if you wish. Once you find what you like shoot it alot. Hope this helps. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 I had the same dilemma last year. I went with a shorty 9Major (4.25" barrel) and had the slide heavily lightened. Then, mistakenly, I added two popple holes in the barrel. They are great if you are only using for minor Steel loads but it wreaks havoc trying to make Major with it. I might end up getting a new barrel and keeping the comp (Ti 3 port) to help with making making Major. On the other hand, I'm rebuilding my older .38 Super to handle Major only loads but moving to 9mm to keep it all simple. Your idea of getting two barrels (two calibers) is pretty good but that builds the cost, more reloading components, changing dies/loads, etc. Having two slides, one heavily lightened and short and then one longer, like a Trubor, minor lightening, in the same caliber would be awesome. Shorty Pros and Cons (for me anyway); Reverse these for the Pros and Cons of a full length slide/barrel - Pros - Very light and nimble, fast cycling, great for steel moving target to target Cons - Harder to make major, more felt recoil with 170 PF loads, getting it sprung right takes some time and testing BTW, if you are used to shooting iron sights, try the side ways (90*) mounts - the dot is very close to the plane of most iron sights and really helped me with picking up the dot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Hello: I would buy a STI Tru Bor in 9mm and shoot Open division and Steel Challenge. I use 115 grain bullets for both just change out the powder charge. I have also used a 95 grain Montana Gold bullet for steel. I don't even have to change out the 9lb ISMI recoil spring. If your eyes are getting worse like all of us then try a C-More with a 12MOA dot. Turn the dot intencity up or down depending on what you like. I shoot steel with it turned up and it is almost as bright as the sun Using a Tru Bor for your first open pistol will get you used to an Open pistol and then you can change things on it to suit you if you wish. Once you find what you like shoot it alot. Hope this helps. Thanks, Eric +1. Love my TruBor - had it 3.5 years, and haven't felt the need for anything "better". Get a gunsmith to install a racker on it, though - much nicer. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drysideshooter Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 Thanks for the replies guys, I really appreciate the advice. Eric, are you shooting major 9mm in your Trubor with the MG 115's? If I can ask, are you using the same powder for major and minor? I'm currently shooting MG 124's over WSF for my production loads and steel. I know that using one barrel length for both sports has it's disadvantages, but starting out it sounds like it's probably a good compromise for me to make. Probably a good way to get my feet wet in open? I know of where there is a SV for sale that comes with a 38super barrel and comp, and a 9mm barrel with two comps. The gun is represented to look like new. What kind of range is reasonable for a gun like that, and would it possibly be a good way for me to start out as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Hello: You can use the same powder for major and minor. I use HS-6 for both and it works great. I would go with a full length pistol. There is no advantage using a shorty if the 5" is light on the front. The 5" I am shooting now is just as fast for me as the Bedell shorty I had. It shoots softer and flatter also. The key to a good 5" pistol I think is getting weight off the front of the pistol so it transitions well. An easy way is to do "High Power Cuts" on the front of the slide and comp. You can also remove material off the bottom of the comp also. Make sure you don't cut into the comp holes. Measure 10 times and cut once. Yes, I was using 115's on the 3 different Tru Bor top ends I had. They work well. You could also try 121's for Production and Open. One bullet buy and all that Lastly I like a quick reacting pistol. For me it just works better. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 there are a couple awesome deals in the classified right now, one of them comes with two barrels one in 9 one in 38. The WAS..(emphasis on past tense) a killer deal on a Gans built Caspian complete open set up. Did I mention I am shooting the VA/MD sectional as an unclassified open shooter ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drysideshooter Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 Thanks Eric. I emailed STI sales and they said the Trubor is set up for major power, but they know that some are shooting minor as well. They provided the phone number for their tech department. I'll give them a call tomorrow and see what they have to say. I emailed the gentleman with the SV gun with the 38 super barrel and the 9mm barrel. He sent his phone number and I am going to call him tomorrow as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) I have two 9mm Open guns one built by Jim Anglin and one by Matt MacLearn both have lightened slides that I shoot major loads through for USPSA with 125 gr bullets. For Steel Challenge I use the same powder and throw the same weight charge and change to a 95 gr bullet ( minor PF). Both guns run 100% with either load. It is not necessay to change barrels or topends to run major and minor loads thru the same gun. Buy the Trubor and have the slide lightened or buy a custom open gun with a lightened slide. Worst senerio you may have to go to a lighter spring for minor loads. Spend the extra money on components or a new loader (1050) that can crank out more bullets. Edited May 13, 2011 by Jaxshooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drysideshooter Posted May 13, 2011 Author Share Posted May 13, 2011 Thanks for the thoughts Jaxshooter. I like the idea of using one gun with minimal changes. Using the same powder and charge with a different bullet would be great too. I think it all makes a lot of sense. My 11 year old son is also shooting 9mm for USPSA and Steel Challenge, so we have a lot of 9mm brass and Montana Gold has shipped quite a few cases of their 124FMJ's to us. We load with a Hornaday LNL. I know blue is the most popular color around here, but my family has long time ties to the Hornady family so we use red stuff when we can. With my son and I both working at it we can crank out quite a few rounds. The Trubor is looking like it could be a great place to start. I know there are no doubt more tuned, higher quality guns out there, but I'm far from a GM at this point and need a good solid platform more than anything. I don't want to be like the high handicap golfer that keeps buying the latest greatest driver and new clubs and always blames his equipment. I have enough room for improvement that I'm really confident that a new STI would never be the limiting factor for my shooting. Hopefully, maybe one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 The TruBor is a well built gun and is also available "tuned" from Dawson. My first open gun was an STI Grandmaster that ran 100% right out of the box. The STI would be a good starter gun that will last as long as you want to shoot it. Like all shooters you will decide over time what you like or dislike about the gun and can make an educated purchase of a custom built gun at that time or modify the TruBor to your liking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueOvalBruin Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Why not run major ammo through the gun even at steel matches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treefarmer Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Why not run major ammo through the gun even at steel matches? major ammo equals major recoil, minor ammo equals minor recoil, as in faster target acquisition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Why not run major ammo through the gun even at steel matches? In Open, a lot of people do but not the other divisions. If your Open is set up right, you should get very little dot movement so little advantage as compared to other guns. I don't do it but some do. I like a very light, shorty, Open, set right at 105 PF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 lots of matches prohibit major pf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 lots of matches prohibit major pf Really? I havent seen that and thats not part of the rules. Only rule close to that is that no magnum calibers are allowed. In fact, lots of steel matches allow pistol caliber carbines and they can really get velocities up there. Dont mean to get off topic, just a point and hope this helps with the pistol choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Why not run major ammo through the gun even at steel matches? A couple years ago at the AASA Nationals I started off with an excellent minor load, did two runs on the first stage, I switched to Major loads for the next 3. I was faster with major, but more importantly my hits were better. Also when switching from major to minor it throws your timing off. That was 2 years ago, I still have about 400 rounds of 38SC minor in a bag, I shoot 4 steel matches and 4 USPSA matches almost every month. So for me I just shoot major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 was speaking steel in general not official steel challenge rules, The few steel matches in daytrip range of me all prohibit major pf, the PSA shootout basically prohibits major 9/38. Most allow over .40 major but basically they dont want major 9/38. So that was a basic response to the "why not run major?" question, Some matches prohibit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 was speaking steel in general not official steel challenge rules, The few steel matches in daytrip range of me all prohibit major pf, the PSA shootout basically prohibits major 9/38. Most allow over .40 major but basically they dont want major 9/38. So that was a basic response to the "why not run major?" question, Some matches prohibit it. For those I just keep the same load and change from 125g Zero to 95gr Zero (@ 150 pf), the lighter bullet takes it down from major and the same charge keeps the noise and concussion at acceptable level, the down side is you have to re-zero the dot because they don't hit in the same spot. A minor load in my primary gun won't even cock the hammer with an 8# spring, Dawson DP-2, a comp that works. Rather than dealing with minor I could just throw the 22 LR top end on, but would they allow MiniMags n 22lr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drysideshooter Posted May 14, 2011 Author Share Posted May 14, 2011 A lot of good, and interesting information, and I apprecaite it. I am thinking that ordering a Trubor from Dawson with their enhancement package in hard chrome is looking like a good way to go for me. CocoBolo it is interesting that you were faster shooting major PF. I hadn't considered how changing PF might effect the feel of shooting the gun. Maybe shooting the gun with major for USPSA and then minor for Steel would make it harder for me to consistently shoot the pistol? I can see that there could be a valid argument for shooting the same load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Hello: I think the Tru Bor is a good choice but I would not get it hard chromed. If you want to change anything on it you will have to machine through the hard chrome. Not a problem but now you will have areas that are not hard chromed. Also if you decide later that you want a new top end built for the Tru Bor then you will have to lap the hard chrome on the frame some to get a perfect fit. You may also look at Shooters Connection for a Tru Bor. Like any gun you must know where it hits so shooting minor loads is still faster for me and shooting a 22 is even faster--make sense? Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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