Trick of the day Bill drill

[Steve Anderson]

During Tuesday's am practice, I paid special attention to my strong hand position after LAMR/standby.

(yes, i do give myself range commands during practice )

I have settled into a hands at sides position of shoulder up, hand just behind the gun, gun a little further back.

I like the "trick of the day" thinking, it's cool to latch on to a certain aspect of a task and find improvement.

Anway, here's my best ever clean bill drill, 1.52 down zero. I shot a 1.42 right after this one, but it had two C's.

Bill Drill of the Day

SA

BTW, those upper pasters are from trying to run the stage of the month ....a.....little......FASTER!

[AikiDale]

Way cool Steve. I notice you and Matt Burkett have a similar shaking of the right hand before drawing. Did you get it from him or did he get it from you? Or is this just common GM practice which I should adopt to help speed up my draw?

[BigDave]

Well, before I watched this video, I though the sub 1.7 Bill Drill was an urban myth. I see that it isn't.

In a word: outstanding. (not that your speed is the point you were trying to make, but to overlook it is doing you an injustice of sorts)

Steve, it looks as if you are punching your chest out before the beep, or am I seeing things? And, during your disection of your practices, do you think your head movement "costs" you anything in terms of time or finding your dot?

[eric nielsen]

[never mind - maybe someone else will notice it]

Edited April 8, 2004 by caspian28r

[ErikW]

If anybody wants to claim he jumped the beep, don't; the soundtrack isn't neccessarily synched with the video, depending on the media player.

Awesome smokin' run.

[Loves2Shoot]

OK I won't say he jumped the buzzer then, but I will shure as heck not let anyone start that way if the course was hands relaxed at sides

Nice shootin'

[Steve Anderson]

Why not? Are the hands not relaxed at sides?

The sound is a little off... the software that coverts super 8 to mpg (dazzle movie maker) causes that sometimes, not sure why.

Big Dave,

Yes, I do push the chest out, only because it makes me stand up straight and not crouch. On the head movement, I used to worry about it a lot, and there is some there, but I never have any trouble getting on the dot. maybe I'll play with that a little.

Aikidale,

I don't where I picked that up, I have watched Matt's videos a gazillion times. (Plus, Matt Mink says I kinda look like Matt B... Long story)

Guys, If my start position is illegal, I'd sure like to know why...

SA

[BigDave]

Are the hands not relaxed at sides?

Well, physically, I'm certain you are not relaxed, least of all your arms.

However, the start position, as it is many times is hands relaxed at sides. There is nothing specfically that states anything about arms, relaxed or not, or if you want to get really crazy, what "at sides" is. I think you're legal, gaming to beat hell, but legal.

It (relaxed, at sides, both) isn't defined in the rulebook, is it? (I can look it up, but I'm a bit lazy this morning)

[ps - sorry for the drift - been hangin' out with Rhino a bit and the osmosis is apparently strong]

[diehli]

You can totally tell the audio is not synched if you watch the gun and listen for the first shot... quite a bit off.

How do you say "smokin'!" in Ohiese?

[Steve Anderson]

The only thing not "relaxed" is the shoulder, it is up in the freestyle position or as close as possible. The arm is relaxed per se, but not straight. Hands are loose, very relaxed.

"think you're legal, gaming to beat hell, but legal."

I like that. :)

Are there any RO's here who would disallow my start position as shown?

If so, why?

Thanks,

SA

[Loves2Shoot]

Yep, I wouldn't let you start that way, because the RO who taught me said relaxed is relaxed. No scrunched up shoulders, no bent elbows, arms hanging "naturally" at your side. Your start position doesn't look natural to me with your shoulders all up like that. He was an old fart but as many nationals as he's RO'd at I figure he know what he's talking about. Sorry Steve it wouldn't fly by me

[eric nielsen]

Sound takes more time to reach the microphone, that might be it.

Even with a random start that's prolly under 1.75. Smoking.

[Steve Anderson]

LS2,

I might challenge an RO who said that to me on the line.

Hands relaxed at sides - My hands are at my sides, and they are relaxed, as evidenced by the flexing of the fingers.

That start procedure doesn't say anything about shoulders or arms.

If is doesn't say you can't....you can, right?

C28,

It's the software...on the tape everything is perfect, but when it is edited and digitized it gets out of whack.

SA

[Loves2Shoot]

Steve,

That's OK to challenge it, I just wouldn't start you

Let the CRO decide is my moto, I just do as I was taught

[MoNsTeR]

I too was once warned for starting that way. But, if it isn't defined in the rulebook, then ???

[Matthew_Mink]

I don't where I picked that up, I have watched Matt's videos a gazillion times. (Plus, Matt Mink says I kinda look like Matt B... Long story)

I think I said you looked and sounded just like Burkett, at least on his DVD's. I've never seen him in person. There is a striking resemblance!

And also smokin run!

[eric nielsen]

The indoor videos of Saul Kirsch and Travis are out of synch too, for sure.

There's one of EG doing El Prez, and by sight it obviously is fast, but also out of synch. Maybe a computer whiz can recommend a digitizing software for ipsc.

[Steve Anderson]

L2S,

What would I have to do to get you to start me?

SA

[John Heiter]

Steve,

Thanks for posting the video as it brings up an interesting point. If you walked up to a stage I was running, I probably wouldn't have started you either. If you were the first shooter on the stage and gave me that arguement, I might have allowed it though. Guess I'm just a friendly fence straddler.

edit: Oh, and FWIW, I'm not taking anything away from your run. Smoking fast. I think the hand position thing is a matter or hundredths of a second really.

John

[SmittyFL]

Don't worry about it Steve, it's just jealousy.

[Matthew_Mink]

FWIW, I try to start in that position also.....

[Loves2Shoot]

RELAX

"both arms hanging relaxed, at sides." is what most classifiers say. I just say they aren't hanging relaxed. I know you can politic the point of what is relaxed, and is it possible to start in that un-natural position and really have your arms hanging as relaxed. I've heard a few arguments for someone wanting to start in a way other than than honestly having your arms hanging relaxed at your sides. I've had a few try to push and I always repy simply, "Why don't you unload and show clear and go see the CRO or RM if you don't agree with the start position." No one has yet.

That is the reason I will never be a CRO or RM. This sport should be about shooting and not seeing how you can tear apart symantics. Just pet peave of mine.

I do think that you could do it just as fast (or faster) from the relaxed position (I've practice that way too and couldn't get it to be faster than full extended and relaxed)

That clip makes me want to break out my open gun, it's been in the safe 2 years now Maybe I'll have to scratch that open itch next weekend

Thanks for sharing the clip!

I hope people notice that with the lightning draw .76 and .15 splits is truely amazingwith all A's. If you take the time to add .14 for the draw and .03 for the splits and it is something you can do like clockwork, day in and day out and not that big of a deal for you. Which strategy woud you use if it came down to winning or losing Nationals and the last stage was a bill drill? Hose it or take the sure thing? You wold be giving up 4.5 points taking it easy.

[Loves2Shoot]

FWIW, I try to start in that position also.....

LOL, sometimes you can get away with it too The benefits of being a GM

Smitty,

Not jealousy (cause I know he could do it from relaxed too) but motivation

[Shooter Grrl]

I'd start ya that way, no problemo

[DBChaffin]

Steve, smoking run!

I'm not sure what I think about the start position. I probably would have started you but I may be too lenient. However, I have some other thoughts:

In my experimentations/practice, I have found that little hand/shoulder/posture changes only adjusted the times by the hundredths of a second. This may be different for you or others, but to me it just didn't make much difference. Yeah, I know each hundredth counts, but bear with me for a minute.

My concern is this. You walk up to a stage and assume the position you want, but the RO won't start you (and its obvious from this thread there are a few that wouldn't or at least disagree with your position). Ok, how does this affect you now? If you say "OK" and adopt a position that they will accept, what is going on in your head at that point, can you get over having to change your position only slightly or will it affect your run? If you decide to argue and call for the CRO, Match Director, Range Master, whomever, regardless of whether you win or lose the argument, will you be ready to shoot the stage at the best of your ability? One stage trashed because you're caught up on a start position technicality and you've lost all those hundredths of a second and then some.

I'm sorry if I am taking this thread too far, but it's what came into my mind upon reading it. Finding "tricks of the day" and cutting every hundredth off the draw is fantastic in practice and your attention to detail is a major reason for you being a GM, but I'm just saying not to get too caught up in the little details and not be able to focus on the big picture on match day, which is simply the shooting. However, knowing your mindset and ability, all of this will probably affect you less than most. But hopefully it will be helpful to someone.

Bryant