my first loads

[BENTNBROKEN]

Well after a week of trolling the forums for load data; I finally bit the bullet, pulled the trigger............ah, anyway

124gr X-treme CPRN 4.2 g Unique federal spp mixed cases OAL 1.13

All said is true; unique is difficult to measure, both my lee beam scale and BE electronic scale were all over the place so my loads varied .1 .2 + or - but they all felt the same when shooting i say 4.2 cause that what I set and measured my initial load at but each drop I checked varied and varied between scales...... so i don't know!!!!

after a call or two to Dillion for powder adjustments (superior customer service) I was on my way! loaded ten and headed over to my local indoor range.

with much anxiety I chambered my first round and bang! it cycled the slide , slide locked and hole appeared in the target! I was stoked. loaded five into magazine and bam, bam, bam, bam, bam ---lock.

now all i have to do is load some more and find a chrono. feels to soft to make minor PF

being my first time reloading it wasn't as simple as the above seems , yes loads felt great no issues with the shooting , but just a few at the bench.

1st my wife came out started yaking, i forgot to PUSH forward and ended up with one unprimed round, about 20 rounds later i felt the unit bind, i slowly started watching and moving lever........

2nd..... round with double primer??? or didn't seat correctly, had to take a couple of parts off the SDB to get the round out, thought it prudent to just take its picture and not try to press primer in or attempt to remove it.

3rd another jam, felt like primer wouldn't seat, but wait i think its moving , what the ....... crunch oh that didn't sound good !!!

4th WOW the bell on that case looks huge!! oh 38 super case in the mix

it was satisfying to fire bullets I loaded, I can see the potential benefit in continuing, not only in money savings but quality and consistency of my load. Look forward to much learning................... drink up the rounds are on me!!!

[Hi-Power Jack]

both my lee beam scale and BE electronic scale were all over the place so my loads varied .1 .2 + or - but they all felt the same when shooting i say 4.2 cause that what I set and measured my initial load at but each drop I checked varied and varied between scales

now all i have to do is load some more and find a chrono.

1st my wife came out started yaking, i forgot to PUSH forward and ended up with one unprimed round,

2nd..... round with double primer??? or didn't seat correctly, had to take a couple of parts off the SDB to get the round out, thought it prudent to just take its picture

3rd another jam, felt like primer wouldn't seat, but wait i think its moving , what the ....... crunch oh that didn't sound good !!!

4th WOW the bell on that case looks huge!! oh 38 super case in the mix

Sounds like you're off to a great start.

The way I measure the powder charge is to throw 10 charges into the

scale, weigh them and divide by ten. If I'm trying to throw 4.3 grains,

I put ten loads into the scale, and keep adjusting it until I get 43

grains for the ten charges. If I get 41.7 grains, I raise the amount

of powder I'm throwing - until it gets to 43 grains for the ten loads.

Trying to measure 4.3 grains is EXTREMELY difficult. Average them...

Yes, once you've loaded them, you need a chrono - borrow one or spend $80.

Yeah, you've just learned a valuable lesson - when you are reloading

(especially as a newbe, but even later) it is essential that you

concentrate on every aspect of the reloading process... No distractions.

When your wife comes by the chat, STOP reloading until she leaves...

Some brass is difficult to seat a primer, eg S & B and military brass -

I sort them out or I usually end up losing a primer:((

If the primer doesn't seat properly - don't load the entire cartridge -

take the case out of the reloader, empty the powder back into your hopper

and throw the case away - no sense losing the powder/bullet also.

Have to keep a close eye on the brass - no .380's, .38 super or .40 (I

even found a .32 a few times) - again, takes a second, but saves you

the aggravation of losing an entire round.

Good luck - sounds like you're off to a great start - get that chrono and

keep going.

Jack

[BENTNBROKEN]

Thanks Jack,

Yes attention you must pay, or pay the price i guess you could say The primer issue takes some experience for sure, i had no idea the primer was the issue until it would not eject from the press, i also loaded another hundred today and found 5 with no primer???? I dont remember any difference in feel, but attention you must pay !!

I have one of those electronic scales like in Brian's store it tells me my load weighs 6.7 grains but my Lee safety scales says 4.2 +/- 1 I think I have to believe the balance beam.........and return my electronic scale, Thank you again for sharing your knowledge and experience with me. have a great day!!!

[Hi-Power Jack]

Thanks Jack,

Yes attention you must pay, or pay the price i guess you could say The primer issue takes some experience for sure, i had no idea the primer was the issue until it would not eject from the press, i also loaded another hundred today and found 5 with no primer???? I dont remember any difference in feel, but attention you must pay !!

I have one of those electronic scales it tells me my load weighs 6.7 grains but my Lee safety scales says 4.2 +/- 1

Bent, throw 10 charges on each scale and see if they add to 67 or 42 grains.

That is a huge, unacceptable difference.

Have you changed the battery on your electronic scale, and balanced your Lee scale to zero,

and made sure it's clean? They should be closer than that.

I wouldn't reload any ammo until you determine if you're throwing 6.7 or 4.2 grains of most powders.

You could get hurt.

Jack

[shooter57]

When the wife use to come down to talk while I was reloading I'd give her a bucket of brass and say do some sorting while we talk. She stoped coming down.

[BENTNBROKEN]

Thanks jack I will do that, both scales are new , i will put a new battery in the electronic scale before i try again. thank you for your concern it is appreciated. and Shooter , i just started talking about what i was doing, she wont be back!

[Sarge]

You should be able to calibrate/zero the electronic scale as well. Check weights are great little things to have.

[BENTNBROKEN]

Hey Kevin,

Thanks I have done the calibration procedure, and the reason I believe the beam scale is correct is the way the bullets shoot they are so much softer then my factory ammo, but I will verify scales before I load any thing else. The electronic scale I purchased is from E arthur brown co, and from the picture it looks exactly like the one Brian offers on his site.

[Hi-Power Jack]

You should be able to calibrate/zero the electronic scale as well. Check weights are great little things to have.

Sorry it took so long for me to figure this out, but I awoke this

morning with a start, and cried "Eureka", bounced out of bed,

and am writing you early ...

Place a bullet of known weight (124 grains?) in your two scales,

and see which one says 124.

Of course, neither will, since your bullet is probably 123 - 125

grains, but a 0.8% difference is much better than a 40% difference.

There is your "check weight" that Kevin mentioned - real easy.

Then you will know which scale you can trust, and you can begin

reloading, and shooting your new reloads - good luck.

Jack

[BENTNBROKEN]

Thanks Jack, I will do that as soon a I get home. funny; its the simple ideas that wake you up in the middle of the night. I was planning on going over to Bass Pro shops today to purchase a different electronic scale, I think you just saved me 40 bucks! thanks again.

[GrumpyOne]

Thanks Jack, I will do that as soon a I get home. funny; its the simple ideas that wake you up in the middle of the night. I was planning on going over to Bass Pro shops today to purchase a different electronic scale, I think you just saved me 40 bucks! thanks again.

$40 for an electronic scale? Well, there's your problem! You should not try and save money on equipment that might mean the difference between you going out and having fun shooting, and going out, then going to the emergency room. Having two scales is a great idea, but both should be calibrated, so that you can cross reference between the two (like you seem to be doing). If I had two scales (which I do), and one was not reading what the other was reading, I wouldn't trust either of them until I could get them back in sync.

The idea about the bullet as a check weight is quite valid, but it will only take you so far, as most do have some variation.

[MARKAVELI]

spend thbe extra money on a decent scale out there, I went through 3 before I got the one I have now... so save the time and headaches and buy once, + 1 on adding 10 charges to give you an average of what your powder measure is throwing.. good luck.

[Bob DuBois]

With Grumpy on this one, I set a new charge with a Dillon beam scale and use a cheap Frankford Arsenal as a check scale on the bench.

If the wife comes in, Stop continue after the conversation. It's a simple process but requires you pay attention to what your doing. If really fun when you get that pet load that pulls that group in tight and cuts recoil.

Have fun reloading!

[rfwobbly]

Mr Broken -

Welcome to reloading!

Scales are one of those tools where you really don't want to mess around. You want a good one that reads the same day after day; year after year. If you stop and pour 2 grains of powder into your hand, you can't even feel it. So whereas you may use a cheap scale in the kitchen to weigh food in ounces or grams, due to the sensitivity required for reloading, cheap scales will only get you hurt.

• If you use a digital you must know that digital scales can be affected by low power, magnetic fields, breezes from a ventilation vent, stiction in the mechanism... in short things you can't even see. So the only way to check these scales is with a set of certified weights in the weight range of what you intend to measure. In other words, to check a scale to weigh 4.2 grains you need to buy a 5 grain check weight. If you're going to load in the 7 to 13 grain range then you need a 10 grain check weight. And so on. This is because electronic scales are sensitive to so many outside sources of interference. This means a cheap digital scale could be "off" +2% in the 15 grain range, and "off" by -3% in the 100 grain range.

• If you use a balance beam, get one that pivots on gem stones and is magnetically dampened. Balance beams can also be "off", but their variation tends to be a constant percentage of the weight across the entire range.

In other words, plotting their variations could look like this...

Hope this helps!

[BENTNBROKEN]

Thank you everyone for your help,

I returned the electronic scale, I calibrated the scale again with it's suppied check weight. It says pass on the display.

I then set a 115gr bullet pulled from a WWB bullet and set it on the scale 186gr was the displayed weight ,

I removed the weight, calibrated again 186gr well its off but its consitent.

I then placed one of my 124gr bullets from my bullet tray, 200gr.

So I have a RMA # and that is going back. Thanks again for all the help, awesome forum we have going on here!

I will heed the advise of all and spend a little more money on the tools needed, I was thinking i could save some money as i was only reloading in one caliber, but when your dealing with weights of 4 to 6 grains sensitvity as well as consitency is; as I now know the most important consideration.

[Erik S.]

If you're loading new cases, the case hasn't expanded from firing at all. This includes the base and primer pocket area, so QUICK TIP on priming NEW cases:

Take a little extra time and manually flip your primers in preparation for tube pickup (i.e. so the explosive side is down in your flip tray). LIGHTLY spray a little One Shot Case Lube on them and load up your tube. You'll find that this makes it SOOO much easier to prime. You can also spray the primer pocket in your cases but I don't know anyone who would want to line up a bunch of itty-bitty 9mm cases on the workbench. Plus, you get lube all over the cases...and everyone knows how I feel about lubing pistol cases Just leave them in the bin and lube the primers themselves. You should only have to do this on the first loading. After the cases expand, it's smooth sailing.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Erik S.

[BENTNBROKEN]

Thanks Erik,

I'll keep that trick in mind, all my cases are used, the S&B case primer pockets are super tight, so much so that I can now tell; after loading about three hundred which are S&B just by the why the handle feels pushing forward for the primer insert stroke. thanks again for your time and sharing your knowledge.

Edited May 5, 2011 by BENTNBROKEN

[rfwobbly]

Thank you everyone for your help, I returned the electronic scale, I calibrated the scale again with it's suppied check weight. It says pass on the display.

You're very lucky you caught that. Before you return the scale try this. Place a quarter on the scale, but under the pan. Then zero the scale again with the added weight. It may start working "properly" with this added weight. The problem then is "sticsion". The weight present is not enough to overcome the initial resistance to movement. This is very common on sub-$100 digital scales. I would still return the scale.

The best deal on a trustworthy scale (Scout's honor) is the Dillon Eliminator for $54 (list price). These are an exact copy of the RCBS 505, which incidentally sells for $74 discounted at Midway! Both scales are made by Ohaus. Other than the shape of the body and the green versus blue paint job they are twins. I'm using a 505 made in the mid-1970's, so with moderate care it will be the last scale you need to buy.

Edited May 6, 2011 by rfwobbly

[BENTNBROKEN]

Thanks wobbly,

I have returned the scale, I am waiting on the delivery of a new scale, I bought the i201 like in Brians store.

After reading reviews, warranty info and specs, I think its a good comprimise between quality and cost.

In my research I found scales from $23.95 all the way to $8000.00 which I figured was a bit much but it is accurate to 0.00001 of a grain. So you get what you pay for. cheers

Shot my 5.0grain loads last night, bit more kick then the 4.2 load but not by much , Waiting on chrony so I can get a idea of PF i'm thinking about 4.6 - 4.8 would be about right,but maybe if I use a different powder; change my OAL, use cci primers instead of Federal ............ ya I can see how this becomes a hobby in itself.

[MARKAVELI]

Thanks wobbly,

I have returned the scale, I am waiting on the delivery of a new scale, I bought the i201 like in Brians store.

After reading reviews, warranty info and specs, I think its a good comprimise between quality and cost.

In my research I found scales from $23.95 all the way to $8000.00 which I figured was a bit much but it is accurate to 0.00001 of a grain. So you get what you pay for. cheers

Shot my 5.0grain loads last night, bit more kick then the 4.2 load but not by much , Waiting on chrony so I can get a idea of PF i'm thinking about 4.6 - 4.8 would be about right,but maybe if I use a different powder; change my OAL, use cci primers instead of Federal ............ ya I can see how this becomes a hobby in itself.

Awsome it might be a while till you find a pet load that your weapon likes,a lotta tweeking.. Good luck

[Erik S.]

Good choice on the scale!

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=128468&st=0&p=1448681&fromsearch=1entry1448681

[BENTNBROKEN]

Thank you all for your help.

Got the new scale last night, spent about 3 hours just powder feeding brass and pouring it into the Lee scale, taking measurment and then setting on new scale. spot on! took awhile to trust what I was seeing.

Thanks again, cheers!

[GrumpyOne]

Thanks Erik,

I'll keep that trick in mind, all my cases are used, the S&B case primer pockets are super tight, so much so that I can now tell; after loading about three hundred which are S&B just by the why the handle feels pushing forward for the primer insert stroke. thanks again for your time and sharing your knowledge.

Careful of the S&B...Stick a magnet to them, you might be quite suprised to find some are more than they appear (I.E. brass colored steel!)!

[BENTNBROKEN]

Thanks Grumpy, I'll check that out.

Shot the last of my 4.2 tonight at an outdoor range, very strange to find all the spent cases at my feet also shot first loads at 4.6 but I should have shot them last not first; to get a better idea of how they felt.

Back to the loader to whip up another batch =Thanks again Cheers