buckonz Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 (edited) For those IPSC Production shooters who frequent the 'Global Village' official IPSC forums, you will probably be aware of the following proposed changes to the 2012 rulebook: * * * * * * Minimum Double Action Trigger Pull Weight: Reduced from 5lbs to 4lbs. The reason is there are many striker-fired guns which are emminently suitable for PD but, in their standard, off-the-shelf configuration, they have trigger pulls precariously close to the existing 5lb limit. This has become evident at the numerous in-match Gun Checks we've conducted over the past 5 years. The lower limit will provide a better comfort zone. * * * * * * Minimum Single Action Trigger Pull Weight: To Be Introduced at 3lbs. There are a few reasons for the additional test for SA/DA guns. Firstly, this is a simple way to keep people honest in respect of trigger jobs. For those who've cited "unenforceability" of the prohibition against the installation of aftermarket internal parts, mostly geared towards achieving lower SA trigger pulls, this is a simple and definitive go/no-go test. We also believe, after conducting due diligence that 3lbs is the correct poundage. Another reason is that it will further level the playing field between SF and DA/SA guns. At a major match with 30 stages, guys using SA/DA guns only need to fire a DA shot a maximum of 30 times, whereas guys using striker-fired guns need to do so for every round, typically 500 or more times. * * * * * * Many CZ owners, who compete in this Division have probably made some minor changes to their pistols, which are currently permitted under the current IPSC Handgun Rulebook. Myself, I have changed my main spring and recoil spring to lighter ones as well as swapped out the standard hammer for the Combat model - all things to give you a crisper DA trigger pull. Many CZ owners are finding that with these permitted changes, their SA trigger pull will not meet this new SA weight requirement, if it gets passed at the at the 2011 Assembly in Greece. What Should I Do? There are two things you should do if you shoot in this Division: 1) Knowledge is power and we need accurate and unbiased data on how this rule change will effect current shooters in this Division. Please, measure both your DA and SA trigger pull weights, log into the 'Global Village' and post the results of your test (along with a brief profile of your pistol - you'll see some examples on the thread already) into the main thread for this issue. As a new'ish member to these forums I am not permitted to post URL's however you will find it in the 'IPSC RULES & REGULATIONS > IPSC Handgun Rules > PRODUCTION DIVISION' section. 2) Formulate your own opinion on this proposed rule change - either FOR or AGAINST - and communicate your thoughts to your IPSC Regional Director, without delay (as the 2011 Assembly isn't far away!) Regards, BuckoNZ Edited April 28, 2011 by buckonz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Another reason is that it will further level the playing field between SF and DA/SA guns. Well there's your problem. How about we allow the guns most suited to the game to actually win. Might as well designate some random firearm the "stock" firearm and every one has to shoot that. No more "field" problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Run what you brung.....This isn't IROC, where everyone has the same Camaro..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddpenn Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I didn't realize shooting a CZ was such a disadvantage. Someone should tell Angus Hobdell, Laetitia Dageunel and Adam Tyc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckonz Posted April 29, 2011 Author Share Posted April 29, 2011 Hi All, The goal and ethos of Production Division was that it shouldn't be an "equipment race" - that one platform shouldn't dominate the division. Originally it was the Tanfoglio's and their big magwells, the rules were changed and the playing field evened up. Then Sig came out with their 21 round capacity, the rules were changed again imposing the 15 round rule and the playing field was evened up. This is just another example of that. Regardless of your position on this matter, please log into the 'Global Village' and voice your comments there. Cheers, BuckoNZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 As an action, you should also write to your regional IPSC coordinator and ask him to vote on this issue accordingly. The problem with this new rule is that even without swapping any parts or trigger job with lots of rounds trough the gun ant lots of dry fire practice the pull gets significantly lighter. It may make sense to lower the SF pull only though, but leave the SA one alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFlowers Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 "No equipment race" and "competition" just don't go together. That's been proven time and time again. Its just not in the alpha nature of competitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 The goal and ethos of Production Division was that it shouldn't be an "equipment race" - that one platform shouldn't dominate the division. If we don't want guns to get better and better guns to be proven effective in competition, then we should tone down the rules so black powder revolvers don't get disadvantaged in production. See how little sense that makes? Regardless of your position on this matter, please log into the 'Global Village' and voice your comments there. They don't like my kind over there, and I've stop caring enough to bother once they moved to become and airsoft league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckonz Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 Just out of interest, based on the feedback received on the 'Global Village' forum, the final recommendation to go to the General Assembly will be a 2kg DA Trigger and a 1kg SA Trigger. 2kg = 4.4lbs 1kg = 2.2lbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 And if adopted, this change will not go into effect until next year. So the existing/current Production rules still apply for the World Shoot in Greece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaeOne3345 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 "No equipment race" and "competition" just don't go together. That's been proven time and time again. Its just not in the alpha nature of competitors. Yea I never understood that logic either. Take Formula 1 cars for example. Those cars progress so much every single race that if a team misses one event they are very far behind on data, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 ~Sigh~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-man Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) The introduction of more and more rules in production (here and IPSC) only serves to hurt the division. It's growth will be stunted when people get sick of spending more money on their "stock" gun because their expensive trigger job is illegal now. It makes one more interested in Limited/Standard or Open where you don't need an attorney to check your gear for compliance. When Production first hit the scene there weren't so many restrictions and the diversity of guns participating and competing at all levels showed more variety than ever. I thought "stock" meant less hassle with gear??!! Edited May 3, 2011 by Z-man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpolans Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Just out of interest, based on the feedback received on the 'Global Village' forum, the final recommendation to go to the General Assembly will be a 2kg DA Trigger and a 1kg SA Trigger. 2kg = 4.4lbs 1kg = 2.2lbs At that point, why bother? No one is going to care much about the difference from 5.0 to 4.4lbs, and the 2.2 limit would just piss off those whose S/A trigger pulls are under the limit without making any real difference in competitive advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facelessman Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 As long as ANY modifications are allowed, there is always going to be some type of arms race. They're all "stock" when you don't count all the parts that were changed or work that was done to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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