t_kothmann Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 just got my dillon 650 running. When I was testing my rounds I was having some trouble. FWIW berry's 147gr over 4 gr wsf now the problem, about one out of every ten rounds would "lock up" on feeding in the glock 17 and 1 in 6 out of the EMP. both guns would almost go in to battery and would lock up so bad I had serious trouble getting them out. no more than a 1/16th from being closed. I kept these rounds separate and checked the dimensions and they seemed to be "ok" anybody ever had any problems like this. also this is some of the worst looking brass I've ever run in to. is it possible its the brass?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobmysterious Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 (edited) Did you check them with a case gauge? ETA: Take the barrel out of your gun and drop each round into it, flip it over and the round should fall out. The brass is probably bulged, causing it to get stuck. Set those rounds aside and take them apart later. Somebody will probably be along here shortly to tell you to get a U-Die because the Dillon die isn't fully resizing the brass. Edited April 26, 2011 by bobmysterious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_kothmann Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 no case gauge did the barrel check though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calishootr Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 what about OAL??? color a round w/ a majic marker and see if its contacting the rifling in the barrel, if so, shorten up the OAL and it should go into battery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anachronism Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Are the bullets seated straight? Even a slightly cocked bullet can cause problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_kothmann Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 Well the oal was fine unless they seated deeper upon "jamming.". These things were in a bind and I feel like if it were a simple case of too long oal I would be able to eject them with ease. To get these rounds out I had to put the front of the g17 on a saw horse and lean into the grip withall my weight. Bullets crooked hmm maybe. After thinking about it I was having trouble getting the feel of the forward priming of the 650. More than four times a piece of brass would come flying out of the press bc the rim sheared while I was priming it. Is it possible that I damaged the rim during priming but it didn't come flying out ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Well the oal was fine unless they seated deeper upon "jamming.". This is quite possible. Did you remeasure oal? . More than four times a piece of brass would come flying out of the press bc the rim sheared while I was priming it. Something is seriously wrong with this scenerio. What brand of brass? S&B by chance or a crimped pocket such as WCC. The only brass I ever had pop out of a press while priming 9mm was .380 brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_kothmann Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 (edited) The brass was all mixed stuff I bought off of GB I spot check the oal every tenth round or so. And was loading well under max oal (close to what factory is) I must have been putting too much pressure on the forward stroke of priming. When one would come out I would go find it to check and verify it was indeed 9mm brass. Is it possible I deformed the rim of these problem rounds enough to matter but not enough for them to pop out? Has anyone ever had a gun lock up like this before. Want to figgire this out before I start cranking out the ammo. If I don't find any answers I may just try a fresh batch of old brass. Edited April 26, 2011 by t_kothmann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Still, you should not have to push anywhere near that hard to seat a primer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob DuBois Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 May be the first stage sizing die is not sizing close enough to the extractor groove. Check the position of the first stage sizer. If it's hitting the shell plate slightly then you may be able to remove some material away from the mouth of the die to bring it closer to the shell plate. This will bring the sizer closer to the extractor groove. If that doesn't work I would purchase a U die, it's in the first station in my tool heads in 9mm, 40S@W and 45acp. The design of Lee sizing dies brings the sizer closer to the extractor groove and the U die is one thousands under sized, sizing the brass just a little smaller. I have seen the U die fix feeding issues in several tight chambered pistols. Purchased mine at EGW. 9mm can be one of the hardest calibers to reload for because of brass, stay away from military brass because the primer pockets need to be swagged and the case volume is smaller driving pressures up. I would also stay away from brass that's been shot through an open gun as some won't hold primers, usually the primer will have a flat look to it. If it's cheap foreign, chunk it. Spend a little time inspecting brass before throwing them in the hopper and it will be time well spent. I shoot range brass and throw away about 10%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 If that doesn't work I would purchase a U die, . I think you are ignoring the fact that he claims to have chamber checked the rounds. Something is missing from this story. One other possibility is a seriously crooked primer sticking out quite a bit - that can surely prevent the gun from going into battery, yet it will pass the chamber check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_kothmann Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 One thing I did do is look at every primer upside down in a tray. Wanted to count them anyway. I wish I knew what part I'm leaving out. My can came in today and I know I'll be shooting tomorrow. If, aghh, when it happens I'll post some pictures. I have lee die kit already (not used, was using dillon dies) does it come with a u die or do I need to get one? I'll be very critical of any jamming round with a set of dial calipers. One thing I may have left out is my loaded round seems to have a small waist in the case. I tried to back off on the crimp but it seemed that the flare lips would come back. Is this norrmal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Well, what I would do, given the mysterious nature of a problem, is the following: Make 100 rounds and gauge check them. Presumably they all pass. Visually inspect all the primers. Take the firing pin out of your gun, and hand cycle all the rounds through the action - from magazines. You are saying every tenth one has problem - then you would not have to go far to find one that jams. Pull that one out and now seriously examine it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpssrh Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 There are a few questions that may have some bearing on this issue: 1) Are you using a standard Glock barrel, or is this a replacement barrel that may have a tight chamber? 2) Have you tried factory ammunition in this barrel? Does it ever fail to fully seat? 3) Have you thought about loading some factory new (never shot) brass to see if it resolves the problem? 4) Is there a local experienced reloader (no disrespect to you or your ability is intended) who could take a first-hand look at your setup to see if there is something you may have overlooked? The fact that the reloads "pass" the case gauge is no guarantee that the round will "fit" in your chamber. We have a couple of barrels where the reloads drop in and out of the case gauge effortlessly and yet they fail to chamber, just as yours apparently are doing. When we used factory new brass, the problem completely resolved. Using a Lee Sizing (or a U die) Die or a Lee Factory Crimp Die also resolved the problem when we reloaded previously shot brass. These guys on this Forum are ready, willing, and able to help you. Just be patient and work through this problem. I have learned so much from their insight and advice. Best wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 both guns would almost go in to battery and would lock up so bad I had serious trouble getting them out. no more than a 1/16th from being closed. I kept these rounds separate and checked the dimensions and they seemed to be "ok" If the rounds are being chamber checked, there is no way that they will be "no more than 1/16th inch from closing" - if they chamber check, they'll feed fine. Problem may be how you chamber check them - are you dropping the rounds into the chamber and hearing them go plunk all the way down into the chamber? If they fit, they should fit when you're firing them?? I think??? Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_kothmann Posted April 27, 2011 Author Share Posted April 27, 2011 (edited) the reason im interested in loading 147's just a little excited ti-rant 9 and stainless sparrow Edited April 27, 2011 by t_kothmann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_kothmann Posted April 27, 2011 Author Share Posted April 27, 2011 There are a few questions that may have some bearing on this issue: 1) Are you using a standard Glock barrel, or is this a replacement barrel that may have a tight chamber? stock bbl do have a lone wolf but wasn't using it 2) Have you tried factory ammunition in this barrel? Does it ever fail to fully seat? factory ammo is fully seating, and has run about 500 round W/O any problems 3) Have you thought about loading some factory new (never shot) brass to see if it resolves the problem? yes i have and that will be the next step if i cant resolve this soon 4) Is there a local experienced reloader (no disrespect to you or your ability is intended) who could take a first-hand look at your setup to see if there is something you may have overlooked? I' ve loaded thousands of 223 and 308 and hundreds of 9 on a single stage when i was tuning my open gun but this is my first swing at anything progressive The fact that the reloads "pass" the case gauge is no guarantee that the round will "fit" in your chamber. We have a couple of barrels where the reloads drop in and out of the case gauge effortlessly and yet they fail to chamber, just as yours apparently are doing. When we used factory new brass, the problem completely resolved. Using a Lee Sizing (or a U die) Die or a Lee Factory Crimp Die also resolved the problem when we reloaded previously shot brass. These guys on this Forum are ready, willing, and able to help you. Just be patient and work through this problem. I have learned so much from their insight and advice. Best wishes. thanks i'll keep yall posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_kothmann Posted April 27, 2011 Author Share Posted April 27, 2011 (edited) the other reason Edited April 27, 2011 by t_kothmann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dis-1-Shooter Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 I had a similar experience also. My new gun would sometimes not go into full battery. Took it to my smith and he said it was the extractor. The extractor was adjusted and still running to this day...zero problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_kothmann Posted April 27, 2011 Author Share Posted April 27, 2011 The glock has a pivoting extractor so I don't think that's the issue. I could see that in a 1911 style gun though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I had a similar experience with my 9mm SVI IMM open gun. The rounds would gauge perfectly in my EGW gauge, but still most of them would lock up my gun when loaded from the magazine. I'd estimate about 1/16" from fully closed slide. I had been using H&N 125gr RN bullets and also Frontier 124gr RN bullets. Due to the shape of the bullet it would engage the lands in the barrel before the slide was fully closed, causing it to bind. I had to load shorter than factory (1.05" / 26,5mm) with the Frontier bullets to be able to fully chamber them. Changing bullets to Partizan 124gr solved everything and I could easily make OAL 1.185" (30mm). My suggestion: 1. Check your rounds using the barrel as a case gauge 2. Try seating the bullets to factory OAL 3. Try a different kind of bullet Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_kothmann Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 (edited) Ok I think I figured it out. Yesterday I went to the gun store to get some fresh brass. After seeing new brass for $30 per 100 I just bought some wwb for $35 per hundred. I shot the first box of 50 and found 47 of them. Threw them in the press walked right back out in the back yard and shot all 47 with out a hiccup. No failures of any kind. I'm all but sure my issues stem from my brass. So now my next question, is getting used brass on gb a crap chute of good and bad brass? Where are you guys getting your brass? Edited April 28, 2011 by t_kothmann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A63111 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I am in Austin and just found a great local source for once fired very reasonably priced brass.2/3 Winchester brass and 1/3 Speer nickel. PM me for details. As of now it is the best I have ever found. Located between you and I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Ok I think I figured it out. Yesterday I went to the gun store to get some fresh brass. After seeing new brass for $30 per 100 I just bought some wwb for $35 per hundred. I shot the first box of 50 and found 47 of them. Threw them in the press walked right back out in the back yard and shot all 47 with out a hiccup. No failures of any kind. I'm all but sure my issues stem from my brass. So now my next question, is getting used brass on gb a crap chute of good and bad brass? Where are you guys getting your brass? Sounds VERY unlikely... I have shot many, many thousands of VERY random brass reloads through Glocks without any problems. Just for grins - did you notice the head stamps on the rounds that did not feed right? I mean - theoretically it IS possible that there was a particular brand of brass, perhaps something obscure, that got mixed into your stream of brass? In which case the head stamps would be consistent. Other than this - Glocks usually eat anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_kothmann Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 some "new" brass is in the works. If that doesn't fix it I'll just have more for when i do get it fixed. TK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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