stringcheese Posted April 1, 2011 Author Share Posted April 1, 2011 It is my impression that most cowboy loads are far lighter then the powerfactor we require in our guns. I suspect they would be somewhat harder to shoot at that speed with power factor ammo, but hey .. I might be wrong. The Schofield is heavier than a 627, but a little slippier too. This is a fun subject, but totally impractical! I like streching my brain around something with limitless arguements and pointless unanswered questions after a day like I had today. It's good to have others participating! I hope your day was better than mine!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwana Six-Gun Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 I have only shot a Schofield one time, but I thought it was cool. If I ever come across one on the cheap, I may have to try that in USPSA, if it works with 45 ACP. If not, then I guess I will have to just dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50GI-Jess Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Nice debate ! Every gun model has it's place in competiton somewhere. Vlad, please keep it civilized here! Don't even try to redicule DA revo's here. Otherwise I'll consider to attend area 5 too. Then we'll make our own little sidestage, where we'll shoot 6 rounds/10 yds at a IPSC target...run to the next about 5 yds. away, and shoot another 6 rds. Highest score win $1.ooo ok..... No seroius, lets not start pointing fingers here! There's enough people outside our belief in freedom and the right to choose, that'll take of that. Unfortunately. All shooting sports....are well shooting sports, and should be respected by anyone. With full respect, Jess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Halley Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 It is my impression that most cowboy loads are far lighter then the powerfactor we require in our guns. I suspect they would be somewhat harder to shoot at that speed with power factor ammo, but hey .. I might be wrong. 125 isn't that hard to make with big heavy bullets...250 grains....looking at a screaming 500 fps. Schofields are listing at around 38 ounces so right about a 686 SSR. Major might be a little prohibitive, but if you're gaming it this way it's for fun anyway. SAA's are a total no go for USPSA as the reloads would be something like 7 to ten seconds....no matter how fast one can spray bullets at the target. Figuring a holster that fit a belt that went through the belt loops and a bandolier that could rotate around the body to allow the shells to be drawn from the most efficient spot it could work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Gene Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 I have never heard Cousin Bill used Schofields. He may have owned one, or touched one, but I have just never heard that till now. What a strange coincidence it is made by someone trying to sell you a Schofield. I bet Grumpy has searched the web high and low on that one by now. As far as PF, I am not sure but SASS may be up there around the 60 or 80 minimum. WG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 http://robert.furtkamp.com/guns/laramieejector.jpg You will probably have to cut and paste the URL onto your browser. The modern Uberti's take full house loads and will easily make major. That extractor is thick enough to cut for moon clips. I would think about running some 45 ACP in a 45 Long Colt gun. If done properly, you could shoot both interchangeably, ACP in moon clips and LC loose rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Vlad, please keep it civilized here! Don't even try to redicule DA revo's here. There was absolutely no disrespect intended in anything I wrote. I just don't understand revolver shooters, but as I said they seem to have a blast so more power to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 (edited) It is my impression that most cowboy loads are far lighter then the powerfactor we require in our guns. I suspect they would be somewhat harder to shoot at that speed with power factor ammo, but hey .. I might be wrong. 125 isn't that hard to make with big heavy bullets...250 grains....looking at a screaming 500 fps. Schofields are listing at around 38 ounces so right about a 686 SSR. Major might be a little prohibitive, but if you're gaming it this way it's for fun anyway. SAA's are a total no go for USPSA as the reloads would be something like 7 to ten seconds....no matter how fast one can spray bullets at the target. Figuring a holster that fit a belt that went through the belt loops and a bandolier that could rotate around the body to allow the shells to be drawn from the most efficient spot it could work. Oh, and if I recall correctly the man in the video that I saw wore a leather glove on his support hand so that he could grab the barrel on the reloads and insert the ammo with his strong hand. I wish that I could remember where, but I have seen a video of someone using a schofield in a USPSA match. He was using moonclips and actually was making reloads as quick as other revolver shooters using moonclips. He did very well if I recall correctly. With the Schofield ejecting the brass as it opens, it looked to make reloading pretty quick. I have accidentally used reloads that I had made for USPSA in a CAS match loaded in a Beretta Stampede. The ammunition made major power factor and chronographed at a little over 660fps with a 250gr lead bullet (that was out of a 2 1/2" barrel Ruger Alaskan). I am sure that the bullets were likely making 750-780fps out of the 5 1/2" barrel of the Stampede. Even major power factor would not be a problem for any modern made single action revolvers in .45 Colt that I have seen. Even without moonclips I could see a Schofield reloaded with jetloaders of SL Variant Speedloaders doing fairly well. It would take some practice to make the reloads smooth and efficient, but anyone determined to go through that I would tip my hat to. Edited April 1, 2011 by Blueridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stringcheese Posted April 1, 2011 Author Share Posted April 1, 2011 The one time I saw a guy do a fast reload with a schofield he had a speedloader and cracked the pistol on the rim of his holster with his strong hand while grabbing the speedloader with his left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Halley Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Cherry river...don't remember his real name shoots a webley...and wears a glove. There was video of this recently. All I could find on youtube was plinkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 (edited) Hey Grumpy, http://www.uberti.com/video/index.php Your point? http://abacom.com/~jkrause/hickok.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Bill_Hickok http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071108064707AAwC3jL http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_guns_did_Wild_Bill_Hickock_use Edited April 1, 2011 by GrumpyOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 There was a fellow in my squad at the last ICORE match i was in, Wheelgunners Revenge 12, who shot a Webley. But a Scofield isn't a Webley, and while you could learn to reload one fast, learning to thumb-cock a Scofield at USPSA speed is going to wear your thumb to a nubbin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 There was a fellow in my squad at the last ICORE match i was in, Wheelgunners Revenge 12, who shot a Webley. But a Scofield isn't a Webley, and while you could learn to reload one fast, learning to thumb-cock a Scofield at USPSA speed is going to wear your thumb to a nubbin. But the important part is....It Ain't my thumb...go fer it. If you want to shoot a single action in USPSA go ahead, if you can figure an expediant way to reload it. The hitting ain't the thing that is not the issue. It is a combinations of hitting and speed. E = MC squared, err I meant points divided by time. Have fun at it. later rdd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stringcheese Posted April 2, 2011 Author Share Posted April 2, 2011 Hey Grumpy, http://www.uberti.com/video/index.php Your point? http://abacom.com/~jkrause/hickok.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Bill_Hickok http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071108064707AAwC3jL http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_guns_did_Wild_Bill_Hickock_use I don't understand the anamosity. Wild Bill was famous for his old navy's but was also known to carry schofields. What does it really matter anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) Hey Grumpy, http://www.uberti.com/video/index.php Your point? http://abacom.com/~jkrause/hickok.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Bill_Hickok http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071108064707AAwC3jL http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_guns_did_Wild_Bill_Hickock_use I don't understand the anamosity. Wild Bill was famous for his old navy's but was also known to carry schofields. What does it really matter anyway? No animosity here.... Maybe you are thinking of a different Wild Bill Actually, Buffalo Bill Cody carried a Schofield, and Doc Holliday..... At any rate, I say go for it with the Schofield....I think it'd be a hoot to watch.... And it doesn't matter...... Edited April 2, 2011 by GrumpyOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Oh, it matters once we pop the popcorn and start the pool...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cas Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Real easy to break the 180 with a break open revolver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Real easy to break the 180 with a break open revolver. Or sweep something! Mainly your foot or leg! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Okay this maybe a really naive question since I've only shot a revolver a handful of times... how hot does the barrel of a revolver get after about say 12-18 rounds? Does one's reloading technique have to take that into account, or one just bears through it for the later reloads in a long course if using a top break? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 You will want a glove. Not just for the heat (which on a long stage, on a hot day, will raise blisters0 but for the sight, which can slash your hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Gene Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) Ha ha, I knew Grumpy would do a little research, and I agree, Wild Bill probably never really carried a Schofield. The Hammer is a little tougher to cock on the Schofield using two hands than a Colt style SAA. The Schofield was really designed to make it easier to reload on horseback. The retaining lever thingie was hit with the thumb, then they could "break" the action open against their leg. They still had to put rounds back in them, but could then switch hands, and load with the right hand, while holding the reins and revolver in their left, then switch back. In the modern cowboy action style of shooting, I seriously doubt a Schofield can be emptied (by shooting) as fast as a SAA, but the reloads would make up for that. I do believe that bob munden once did a comparison on the speed of a Colt SAA and a 1911, and said that the SAA could be shot out faster, and he is amazingly fast with both guns. BTW and FWIW, the .45 Colt is the actual designation for the cartridge. There was the Colt, there was a Short Colt, and the .45 ACP. Interestingly, the 44-40 was a very popular cartridge because at the time, they were not able to get the straight wall cartridge of the .45 Colt to extract out of the Rifle with all the Black Powder residue. The 44-40 is a bottle neck cartridge. Also popular were 32-20, and 38-40. Interestingly, the numbers on the rounds designated the caliber then the powder charge. For instance, the 45-70 is a .45 Caliber bullet (usually 405 grain, but I have bullets that are 3?? to 520 grain) with 70 grains of Black Powder BY VOLUME, not weight. An exception being the 38-40 which is actually the opposite, having a .40 caliber bullet and 38 grains of BP by Volume. What would be really cool is if you could just strap on multiple pistols, and shoot a stage with BLACK POWDER, or similar stinky smokey substitute! You would have trouble seeing the shooter from the line, and the shooter would have a heck of a time, seeing the targets! If you have never had the opportunity, you should go to one of the BP only matches that the SASS guys put on. WG Ps. Deuce Stevens can draw, shoot five, holster, draw shoot five again from his Ruger Vaqueros in somewhere around the 2.9 second mark. google cowboy shooting world records, that will probably turn up some video. Edited April 2, 2011 by Wild Gene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Halley Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I do believe that bob munden once did a comparison on the speed of a Colt SAA and a 1911, and said that the SAA could be shot out faster, and he is amazingly fast with both guns. Ps. Deuce Stevens can draw, shoot five, holster, draw shoot five again from his Ruger Vaqueros in somewhere around the 2.9 second mark. google cowboy shooting world records, that will probably turn up some video. He started with a cocked SAA and fired three shots in .11 and then bump fired a 1911 and it went to .15 or so. P.S. did he hit anything? Looking at the SASS minimum PF of 60 with a max velocity of 1000fps and min velocity of 400fps it seems qutie manageable on the recoil end for the fast shooting, but the reflexes are still the hard part. I'd guess recoil to be quite neglible. Explains a lot about the rate of fire and accuracy that a lot of shooters are achieving. This is not meant to take away from the amazing form and transitions the top shooters are performing. CAS, SASS, or whatever you call it looks like a lot of fun and someday I'll get around to it if I ever start hitting the targets well enough with the DA revos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I do believe that bob munden once did a comparison on the speed of a Colt SAA and a 1911, and said that the SAA could be shot out faster, and he is amazingly fast with both guns. Ps. Deuce Stevens can draw, shoot five, holster, draw shoot five again from his Ruger Vaqueros in somewhere around the 2.9 second mark. google cowboy shooting world records, that will probably turn up some video. He started with a cocked SAA and fired three shots in .11 and then bump fired a 1911 and it went to .15 or so. P.S. did he hit anything? Looking at the SASS minimum PF of 60 with a max velocity of 1000fps and min velocity of 400fps it seems qutie manageable on the recoil end for the fast shooting, but the reflexes are still the hard part. I'd guess recoil to be quite neglible. Explains a lot about the rate of fire and accuracy that a lot of shooters are achieving. This is not meant to take away from the amazing form and transitions the top shooters are performing. CAS, SASS, or whatever you call it looks like a lot of fun and someday I'll get around to it if I ever start hitting the targets well enough with the DA revos. Munden is an incredible shot. There is a video of hitting a ballon on a steel plate at 200 yards (I think), with a snubby 38. He has also opened a safety pin with 45 ACP without bending the pin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Gene Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 P.S. did he hit anything? I'd guess recoil to be quite neglible. all shots on a single steel target. yes, you would guess right. Hi Grumpy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cas Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 (edited) There's a lot more to "45 colts" than most people think, more that just .45 Colt (Long colt to some), .45 S&W etc... Here's examples of just some variations in length and rim. As far as thumb cocking single actions, that's one of the big reasons I couldn't get into Cowboy Action shooting. I viewed thumb cocking as unrealistic gaming. The REAL reason no one shoots single actions in USPSA is the rest of the guys in the squad would kill him having to wait around all day for him to finish the match. Edited April 3, 2011 by cas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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