50cal Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 Hi everyone, let me say that I have spent the first week since joining, looking/searching before posting these question. I am sure some of my questions have been addressed at length and I did find some related material. Unfortunately what I did find only demonstrated how in-depth and complicated the task of finding a race gun is. I am new to race guns (have none) and I want one bad. I thought there may be a "Best out of the box race gun" or "Best race gun for under $2000" thread somewhere but I failed to find one. Here are some of my questions if you would be so kind: First, I did find this nifty used race gun. I swear it looks mint (super clean - at least a 90% gun or better - like the guy never used it). Apparently there was a 5yr wait for this package. To save space I put the details HERE It is apparently over $3400 new and conseignment sheet is firm at $2600. What do you think? What would you offer? Other questions: Is 9mm sufficient and accurate? At $2600 There are some decent out of the box guns available. I want an open Race gun, can you suggest a few options? I have a dillon 550 so I am not worried about cost of shooting. Currently, I'll hit the range with my p220sport and Ultradot and shoot about 400-500 rounds in a hour. Thanks for your tolerance and assistance, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 Mike, Is this a HI-Cap gun or a single stack? and also where are you located? Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50cal Posted March 26, 2004 Author Share Posted March 26, 2004 single stack. I'm in No. VA - near DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenavd Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 Forget it. A single stack racegun is about as dead as dead can get. Check the want adds on the uspsa page, talk to local shooters, but stay away from single stack race guns. Going into a stage with 10 in the gun against someone with 24-29 just is to hard to overcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 Being in NO VA you don't have the 10 round restriction, I wouldn't do that one but check around... on USPSA Classifieds. I am also in NO Va area... Or call Tommy @ Loudoun Guns, 703-771-7479 He might have or know of something. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old shooter Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 Mike, Call Chuch at Shooters connection, and ask about a Bedell open gun for 2500, new, lots of options, and a relativly short waiting period. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 Shoot a few different race guns before you buy anything. There a a ton of factors that will vary from gun to gun. There are big and heavy down to short and light, 1000 different comps, and so on. Hands on reserch before you by anything is priceless. Good luck! Cameron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianH Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 That's more of a collector gun. If it's a Richard Heinie top to bottom, it prob. was a 5 year wait, and the price is prob. good; he doesn't make comp guns anymore. But, like everybody said, it will not be competitive. Unless you just love the gun and don't mind doing lots of reloads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 Whoever is selling itis out of his/her mind IMO. A 5 year wait is very odd. You should be able to get whatever you want inside a year. $2600 for a single stack. I think you would be best to run away from that deal fast. 9mm is fine, but limits your reloading choices. Any of the .38 variants would give you a lot more options. Dawson Precicion, Shooters Connection, Speed shooters, Benny Hill, and Brazos Custom are a few places to check. $2600 should get you as good of an open gun as you would ever need. Oh yea, gunbroker has his deal a gun and 6 mag, belt, holster, mag pouches, etc. for $2500. less $ yet w/5 mags for $1800 and a new Scott Grip and hardchrome and you are set Most comps work well enough, and the other options don't really make enough difference to matter. Welcome to the dark side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.J. Norris Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 50cal, If you can, why don't you come out to North Mountain match this Sunday? We'll have plenty of Open shooters that will probably let you run a few rounds through their gun if you let them know that you'retrying to get a handle on you want. Range is only about an hour and a half from Fairfax. Directions at www.randymays.com/orchard.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 That could be a decent Steel Challenge Open gun.... if the price were a fraction of what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50cal Posted March 26, 2004 Author Share Posted March 26, 2004 Guys thanks a million! Picked up some great thoughts and info. -forget the Heinie race gun -double stacks are good -.38 cal is good -some great guns at around $2000 - $2500, I am looking into them -some great leads and places to call, I will follow these too (yes, I like Loudoun guns, great shop - what I don't buy on-line, I get from them. Again, Thanks guys. I don't feel so confused anymore but I am definitely in unfamilliar territory - still. the north mountain match sounds fun, I hope I can get out there - thanks. Cheers, Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew B Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 " Unfortunately what I did find only demonstrated how in-depth and complicated the task of finding a race gun is." You don't need to start with a Ferrari. Many of the open shooters on this site are pretty advanced and have evolved to were they know what they want out of a gun and have them built to accomodate their tastes. Reading these posts can be intimidating. There are a great many open shooters who are in the game with STI Competitors - a production gun - that can be purchased new from Brazos for $2,375 and delivered shortly. He has them in stock. You don't have to buy a custom built gun and wait a year for it. You may end up there, but I don't recommend you start there. "Is 9mm sufficient and accurate?" I am not convinced that 9mm major can work as well as a 38 super/supercomp as the overall length limits what powders you can use to make major which limits the amount of gas produced whichs limits the effectiveness of the comp. I have not purchased a 9mm major because I don't want to be limited in what powder I can use. The guys I know using 9mm open guns are struggling to work out loads that operate the gun well. That said, there are guys shooting 9mm major very competitively. The brass is cheap and you do lose brass at matches. Super brass runs about .10 versus .01 for 9mm. 9mm open is less expensive to operate, I just am not convinced it does the job as well. I am curious - what is prompting you to come over to the dark side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50cal Posted March 27, 2004 Author Share Posted March 27, 2004 I am curious - what is prompting you to come over to the dark side? This simple question turned out to be very hard for me to answer. At the moment I am not planning on entering competition. That may change. The simple answer is because I know I will love shooting this gun. I like to shoot tons of meticuluosly prepared ammo as rapidly as I can. These guns simply look awesome. In my mind, these guns are the at the top of the shooting foodchain. They represent the highest achievement of form, function and performance in the pistol arena and I want to have one. Would one consider one of these guns (say the Trubor) to be a 1911? Or has it evolved so far that it is an entirely different gun? Again, my appreciation Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liota Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 50cal, A second welcome to the dark side! I will also give Benny Hill a second recommendation. He built my open gun and only took a month to do it. It started as a slide to frame fit and came back a chromed beauty with a temprament to match mine. To be perfectly honest, we have three of Benny's guns in the house, two open guns and a little commander in 9x23 Supercomp. All of them shoot like a charm. Liota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenTX Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 There are a lot of used Open gus out there, just take your time. I liked the ads from the guys who said their guns run, reliability in IMHO is more important than having every super slick trick part. I found that on used competition guns, the guys that really believed in their guns would gave a trial period, mine came with a three day trial period. I bought a used SV Open Gun April 3rd, built by a guy named Mike Johnson in Chinook, Montana. I can't find anything on him, but the gun runs and hits. After a 20 year lay off I started shooting IPSC again 5 months ago with a Limited 10 single stack 45. Then paid $1800 for the SV Open gun, with 4 140 mags and a big stick, about 350 loaded rounds, 2000+ brass, another 300-500 bullets, a 38 Super dillon tool head, powder, primers, extra mag springs, followers, batteries and other misc bits and pieces, plus load data. I bought a used holster, a new belt and mag pouches and I was ready to race. Shot my third match with it yesterday, an Open Gun feels almost like cheating. Hitting is sooo easy (once you find that little red dot). No recoil, no more than one mag change per stage, this is too much fun. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Hi Bob, welcome to the forum. Glad you like the pistol, I'm having withdrawal already..... I'm going to finish out the year with Limited, but I'm sure another open gun is in my future, maybe a longterm project? And Mike Johnson is quitely turning out great guns, without the hype.... he has more work than he needs to stay busy, and several of the top shooters each year at the the American Handgunner shoot, etc. each year will be shooting his wares. Meticulous attention to detail, and pride of craftsmanship that you can only get from a 1 man operation. (sound like a sales pitch? Mike is a top notch guy, I guess it is ) his shop name is Shooting Specialties, 406 357-3132. No website. Have Fun! DVC, Shaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50cal Posted April 20, 2004 Author Share Posted April 20, 2004 Hi y'all, Just a quick follow-up and thankyou. A few very kind members have approached me recently with some very tempting options (so if you're in the market, you will undoubtedly find happiness). I have settled on a Brazos Pro Series Open Gun with a few extras. I'm psyched and can hardley wait. I want to start making ammo but, though I have all the components, I don't have have data yet for a 5in. comp'd barrel with poppleholes in .38 super comp, wsr, vvn105, zero 125grain .356. Take care and thanks for your help! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Mike Johnson made me a Witness 40 that I still have. Perfect out of the box. Then, of course, USPSA changed the magazine rules for Limited, and some company called STI started making 40's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Mike (50 cal) When is your Brazos gun going to be shipped to you? I ordered my Pro SX and was told April \ May of next year. I hope I'm still interested in the sport then I ordered all the extras and am too looking forward to getting it. Maybe I should go out and purchase my Dillion dies in the next several months and start loading some up. I have yet to tell Bob what caliber I want but was thinking of .38 Super Comp. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50cal Posted April 21, 2004 Author Share Posted April 21, 2004 Pro SX eh? Well, that explains the wait. Mine is a lot less work than yours. Hopefully I'll see it this summer. I went Super Comp. As far as cooking up a ton of ammo in advance, Check with Bob for a recipe for that specific gun. When he completes a gun and fires it for reliability and function, he will also be able to propose a good load for that gun. It would be drag sitting on 2000 rnds of less-than-optimal ammo for a gun like the SX. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Good point Mike, I will do that. I still HATE the wait Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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