Don Springer Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Last night, at our weekly match, we had a new guy show up. Brought all the right gear. Knowledgeable and a great shooter. We had a stage with a port / window in it and he made mention that there was a new rule on the IDPA web site that stated sticking the weapon or the shooters hands through the port was an FTDR. I've used Adobe to search the rule book and addendum. I've searched the IDPA forum on their site and I've run a search here and can find no such rule. I'm by no means calling him a liar I just want to make sure my club is familiar with the rule and in order to do so I need to find it. Can anyone point me in the right direction? thanks in advance for any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Never heard of that one. It may not be tactically sound but not an FTDR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strick Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I have never seen any rule or rule clarification for that and I make sure to try and keep up to date on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 No such rule exists in the book. This comes from some tactical school somewhere I guess. A few years back the Louisiana state match was run with that rule for every stage for ports and barricades. I don't remember what the penalty was but it may have been FTDR. It was explained in the walk through for each stage that it would be a penalty. I suppose that if it was part of the written instructions for the COF then you could argue that it was OK to enforce as part of the COF. The folks running the match said that they caught so much crap from shooters about the COF rule that they would not be doing it again. That was the first time I ran into that type of COF rule. I just did as they asked, I don't care what they want so long as I know ahead of time how I'll be scored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Vigilante Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) This appears in the addendum and is probably what he is referring to: "At no time should a competitor stand directly in a window or port to engage targets. Competitors must slice the pie around the edge of the window or port." Edited January 22, 2011 by The_Vigilante Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDPMatt Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Been to a few matches run with that rule (sanctioned and local).... never seen it in print though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strick Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 COF descriptions should not be used to create a new game or new rules. It is either an IDPA sanctioned match using IDPA rules or it is not. It makes you wonder if these tings were in the stage designs they sent to the AC for approval. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 This appears in the addendum and is probably what he is referring to: "At no time should a competitor stand directly in a “window” or port to engage targets. Competitors must “slice the pie” around the edge of the “window” or port." That may be what the guy was referring to but it's definitely not what the addendum means. Prior to this rule modification- shooters would often stand directly in front of the window/port- with the assumption they were using proper cover. This addendum requires shooters to slide the pie from any port or window- you can't "stand" directly in front of the port/window. Regardless- this says nothing about requiring the muzzle/gun to be outside the port. No FTDR at all if the muzzle is through the port/window! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Springer Posted January 22, 2011 Author Share Posted January 22, 2011 This appears in the addendum and is probably what he is referring to: "At no time should a competitor stand directly in a “window” or port to engage targets. Competitors must “slice the pie” around the edge of the “window” or port." Yea as far as I could tell that's the only reference to a port in the addendum at all. He had also made mention of this clarification on standing in front of a window so I don't think this is what he was referring to. I just wanna make sure we are current on our rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 It was used one year at LA State IDPA, but it's wrong. It isn't in the rules and it should not be used. It is a bad practice? Yes. It is against the rules? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffWard Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I got dinged for this twice in a local non-sanctioned "IDPA-ish" match here in St Pete. I don't push the gun through the port often in USPSA simply due to the speed element, but I often FINISH as close to the target as the COF allows... Two stages finished in ports... I got two procedurals... I pointed out that it seems to be nowhere in the rules either, but these guys run WAY outside the rules all the time. When in Rome... Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 When in Rome....don't shoot their matches. At least that's my approach. Some folks at actual IDPA clubs, with all the best intentions in the world, do occasionally let their own interpretation of the rules add to what are actually, y'know, the rules. But I do try to stay away from "IDPA-ish" matches. As I've heard it said, "If you want to run your matches under Joe's rules, start Joe-PDA, not Joe's version of IDPA." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Z Sr Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Good point, the rules should be the same at every match, like them or not, it keeps us all on the same page. As far as ports, not really a good idea to go through with gun/hands, seen many get caught up and waste time, and then again there is the "Tactical" reason not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solaritx Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I also concur with what has already been said on the subject. The first I heard of this "rule" was a fellow shooter from our club shot a sanctioned match in Florida and was dinged for this. It then came up later in the LA state match. This is the type of issues that come up, hopefully get clarified now by HQ and we all get to shoot by the same rules across the world. Not every issue needs to be clarified, BUT.....if over the years the same problem comes up in different areas of the country, then clarification should address the issue. We are all big boys, but even big boys need direction. Think not????? Ask any of our wifes, daughters and/or girlfriends. Garry N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 There's just no possible justification for giving an FTDR there. FTDR is used for trying to circumvent the rules, not failure to properly use cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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