Got Juice? Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 When my Tanfoglio Limited comes back from the 'smith I will be sporting a new top end. .357sig and comp will be installed. Can a person shoot open without a red dot and not be at a disadvantage compared to those who's guns are sporting optics? I only ask because the optic interferes a little with a persons field of view when moving through a course of fire. I have the mount for a C-More, but I am curious if anyone else has tried this, and what their impressions are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtremeShot Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Can a person shoot open without a red dot and not be at a disadvantage compared to those who's guns are sporting optics? Not a chance. Too many things to line up with irons. With a red dot, put the dot on the target, pull the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Barnhart did this at a US Nationals one time. I think he finished in 6th place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwin garcia Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 When my Tanfoglio Limited comes back from the 'smith I will be sporting a new top end. .357sig and comp will be installed. Can a person shoot open without a red dot and not be at a disadvantage compared to those who's guns are sporting optics? I only ask because the optic interferes a little with a persons field of view when moving through a course of fire. I have the mount for a C-More, but I am curious if anyone else has tried this, and what their impressions are. Interferes a little. It can be easily overcome by proper training and technique. Mainstream Open shooters don't mind it and see more advantage in faster sight(dot)acquisition. It's one of the things that makes Open different from the rest of the div. Enjoy the dark side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Juice? Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 I will try it then, sounds like a challenge. I have been training with open sights in pistol silhouette, and last year my .40 was open sights, so I am hoping to be successful by 'bucking the trend' and using irons. Speed, Accuracy, Power, I am hoping that speed will somewhat make up for accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry cazes Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Learn to shoot with both eyes open and a target focus and the sight body will not interfere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt2ace Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I will try it then, sounds like a challenge. I have been training with open sights in pistol silhouette, and last year my .40 was open sights, so I am hoping to be successful by 'bucking the trend' and using irons. Speed, Accuracy, Power, I am hoping that speed will somewhat make up for accuracy. Shooting against a red-dot open shooter of the same class.....red dot will win. Put the C-more on and learn to shoot with it, you see just how much faster it is versus open sights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DyNo! Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I have been to some three gun matches where a red dot on a pistol would give you no significant advantages. I've never been to a USPSA match in 10 years where irons and a dot are on the same level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwin garcia Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I will try it then, sounds like a challenge. I have been training with open sights in pistol silhouette, and last year my .40 was open sights, so I am hoping to be successful by 'bucking the trend' and using irons. Speed, Accuracy, Power, I am hoping that speed will somewhat make up for accuracy. Shooting against a red-dot open shooter of the same class.....red dot will win. Put the C-more on and learn to shoot with it, you see just how much faster it is versus open sights. It's always a balance of speed and accuray (and poer factor of course). + 1 to what matt2ace said. I don't think you're the first person to attempt this and you will not be the first one to be disappointed, too. Not saying it will not work but it can be quite a challenge. If your goal is just to try it then it should be fine. Let us know of your results. If your goal, however, is to have a smoother learning curve in transitioning to Open div, you might look at some of the tested equipment and techniques that shooters here are freely giving. My 2 cents... Goodluck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Juice? Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 I will try it then, sounds like a challenge. I have been training with open sights in pistol silhouette, and last year my .40 was open sights, so I am hoping to be successful by 'bucking the trend' and using irons. Speed, Accuracy, Power, I am hoping that speed will somewhat make up for accuracy. Shooting against a red-dot open shooter of the same class.....red dot will win. Put the C-more on and learn to shoot with it, you see just how much faster it is versus open sights. It's always a balance of speed and accuray (and poer factor of course). + 1 to what matt2ace said. I don't think you're the first person to attempt this and you will not be the first one to be disappointed, too. Not saying it will not work but it can be quite a challenge. If your goal is just to try it then it should be fine. Let us know of your results. If your goal, however, is to have a smoother learning curve in transitioning to Open div, you might look at some of the tested equipment and techniques that shooters here are freely giving. My 2 cents... Goodluck Yesir! Learning as I go here. There is a wealth of knowledge on IPSC here, and I am greedily soaking it up. Please excuse some of my questions, as I am sure almost 50% of them have been addressed before. Optics VS Irons was one of my nagging questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Another factor is stage design as well. On of our MD's decided to have what he called old school and hoser courses of fire. All open paper targets and nothing more than 10 yards away. As I recall, the Limited shooters were giving the Open shooters a run for their money, and some production shooters won or came very close to winning a couple of stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DyNo! Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Here's an example where iron sights would be on the same level as a dot. If you put several steel plates in a line and put several feet between them, a dot won't make you go any faster since an iron sight shooter will have time to follow every shot through perfectly and call a subsequent shot with a perfectly aligned sight picture (Like a steel challenge stage but further away). Another situation like Skydiver said is where an acceptable sight picture means seeing your gun and the target at the same time. Being able to see the dot (the shot) the whole time does no good if it takes the same amount of time to get it back on target as in these scenarios. USPSA stages I've seen seldom have that sort of target placement since it's generally takes some time to shoot (or no time to shoot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 There is really only 2 advantages to shooting Open. Mag capacity and a single point aiming system. I know I could beat my own ass if I shot irons against my self shooting a C-More. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Juice? Posted March 4, 2011 Author Share Posted March 4, 2011 There is really only 2 advantages to shooting Open. Mag capacity and a single point aiming system. I know I could beat my own ass if I shot a dot against my self shooting a C-More. In Canada we are restricted to 10 round capacities in our magazines. So that advantage is negated. Looks like SPOA is the only advantage then. All else being equal, I will try an aimpoint, and open sights, just to see what if any difference there is to my shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 The dot will take some time to learn to use properly. You have likely trained your eyes to bring the focus back to see the irons. That will slow you down using a dot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Juice? Posted March 4, 2011 Author Share Posted March 4, 2011 The dot will take some time to learn to use properly. You have likely trained your eyes to bring the focus back to see the irons. That will slow you down using a dot. Hm. I can see where and what you mean. I have tried out a dot and find that I 'lose' them wether it be cmore or aimpoint. This is frustrating. Everyone I talk to says a dot is so much easier, but I am finding it to be the polar opposite for me. It looks as though I have 2 options. 1 Keep on with irons 2 Practice more with the red dot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzYooper Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 I feel that there is also a third advantage to open over limited and that is recoil control with the comp. Maybe it is just me. I moved to open from limited a while ago and I remember that had trouble at first always acquiring the dot. It got better and better each time I shot and didn't take long to become second nature. Also in the beginning it seemed that the dot would dance all over glass and not stay on target. The went away also and I doubt I developed a steadier hand. I let my limited division friends try out my pistol often and none of them just pick up the dot right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Finding the dot is an entirely separate issue. That's usually an inconsistent grip. Fix that, and you will better with irons too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Hello: I got rid of the dot dance by using a Quinn II mount. Since I mostly shoot iron sights the Quinn II helped me do the transition to a C-More. I shoot with both eyes open so the mount and dot don't really get in my way. I did try a tube dot scope for a while and did not like it at all. I know there are people who just love them since they can index off the top of the tube to find the dot. I would try the irons first and then try a C-More. Then you can tell what works best for you. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Juice? Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 Finding the dot is an entirely separate issue. That's usually an inconsistent grip. Fix that, and you will better with irons too. Pretty sure grip isn't the issue. I am still am at the top of the pile in pistol silhouette. Usually 1st or second. And this is done with iron sights only (on the league I set up with another shooter) But I will double check that, just to try and eliminate the variable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Juice? Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 Hello: I got rid of the dot dance by using a Quinn II mount. Since I mostly shoot iron sights the Quinn II helped me do the transition to a C-More. I shoot with both eyes open so the mount and dot don't really get in my way. I did try a tube dot scope for a while and did not like it at all. I know there are people who just love them since they can index off the top of the tube to find the dot. I would try the irons first and then try a C-More. Then you can tell what works best for you. Thanks, Eric Both eyes are open when I shoot. I think there might be a C-More in my future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianATL Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 There is really only 2 advantages to shooting Open. Mag capacity and a single point aiming system. I know I could beat my own ass if I shot irons against my self shooting a C-More. Pretty sure you do that a lot anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 There is really only 2 advantages to shooting Open. Mag capacity and a single point aiming system. I know I could beat my own ass if I shot irons against my self shooting a C-More. Pretty sure you do that a lot anyway. And yours as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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