GOF Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 A typical scenario in IDPA has the shooter starting in the open... with targets in front of him/her... and those targets must, under COF description, be shot on the move as the shooter moves to a designated cover position where other targets will be engaged. Question... the new rules addendum states that if any cover exists on the COF, that is the place a shooter must reload. How would you handle a situation where a shooter is moving, engaging targets, and suffers a gun malfunction while doing so? Can the shooter clear the malfunction while in the open, under current IDPA rules for malf clearing. If it is a dead primer in a revo, can the shooter, while in the open, dump that cylinder, reload with a speed loader, get back on the move and shoot the specified targets? Or, if a major magazine/feed malf with a semi-auto, can they dump the malfuctioning ammo feeding device, slap in a new one, and shoot the remaining targets on the move? Or, do they have to move to cover to reload, in which case they may have a problem engaging the specified targets "on the move". I would think that existing rules for clearing a malf would allow the shooter do clear/reload in the open and finish the "on the move" targets as they move to cover. Is there another interpretation? There are a bunch of experienced SO/MDs here, so I thought I would ask for a clarification. GOF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirveyr Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) What would you do if this happened on the mean streets? Obviously, you would find the nearest cover, regardless of how far away it was, run behind it and perform the reload, right? I typically let the shooter stop moving, clear the malf, and continue moving and engaging after the problem is fixed. If they want to run to cover to do the reload, I have also let them engage the targets from cover if the targets can be seen from that cover position. What's to keep someone from just running to the cover position and engaging the targets, you ask? Self respect. Edited January 3, 2011 by sirveyr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robot Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 What would you do if this happened on the mean streets? Obviously, you would find the nearest cover, regardless of how far away it was, run behind it and perform the reload, right? I typically let the shooter stop moving, clear the malf, and continue moving and engaging after the problem is fixed. If they want to run to cover to do the reload, I have also let them engage the targets from cover if the targets can be seen from that cover position. What's to keep someone from just running to the cover position and engaging the targets, you ask? Self respect. that's what would be really logical, but if the CoF states that T1 and T2 can only be shot on the move, then you'd have to duck behind cover, clear malfunction / reload, walk back out in the open and engage T1 and T2, then back into cover to continue. I think I've shot it this way more than 3 times, some on video (if you're interested to see it). Especially if the initial targets are obscured from the cover position. I prefer your method but I think course designers need to write that in specifically that reengaging T1 and T2 from cover is ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Lets' go easy on the "What would you do the mean streets" commentary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I had that exact situation occur a few months ago. My one match where I experimented with a lightweight firing pin my Glock, actually. Click! I cleared the malf and kept moving and shooting. And was then assessed a procedural penalty for not moving immediately to cover to clear the malf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atbarr Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I had that exact situation occur a few months ago. My one match where I experimented with a lightweight firing pin my Glock, actually. Click! I cleared the malf and kept moving and shooting. And was then assessed a procedural penalty for not moving immediately to cover to clear the malf. That is B.S. Are they saying, it's quicker to move to cover, than clearing a jam. Give me a break! A.T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Where does the rulebook require moving to cover to clear a malf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 Koski, I was wondering that myself. But, a review of the Rule Book and the new addendum never mentions malf, expect under the "Reloading" appendix where it says you are not required to retain/stow any ammunition feeding device that may have contributed to a malf. But, it doesn't define a malf. Nor does it say anything about how to deal with one in the open where the COF says targets must be shot on the move. I would think that there is a difference between reloading when you run outa bullets, and clearing a gun malfunction during a COF, and especially in an open/shoot on the move requirement. But, I can't find one in the Rule Book. I was hoping someone had a firm ruling on it. I note that D Thomas says he got a PE for clearing a malf in the open instead of moving to cover to clear it, which seems to be a rather extreme interpretation by the SO. He notes it was a misfire, so I don't know if he just racked the slide and continued on, or dumped the mag and re-charged. But, that call is puzzling. GOF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Racked the slide while still moving to the rear and continued firing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Definitely a situation where you should ask the SO to show you the rule. There is no such rule, he's making stuff up. Koski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickB Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 If the written procedure says, "continue moving to cover to clear a malfunction", can the shooter ignor it, or does he have to comply? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 If the COF says "continue moving to cover to clear a malfunction"... then that's what you do. The COF is the immediate Bible for that COF. But,I've never... in five years as a SO, several Nationals, a few Regionals, and a large handful of State sanctioned Championship matches... ever seen a "malf response" written into a COF. For that matter, the Rule Book doesn't even define a Malf. I guess it's one of those things that everybody knows when they see it, but not everyone may have the same "vision". So, from the perspective of a SO who wants to follow the Rule Book.... what is a malf?... How is a shooter allowed, under the Rule Book, to deal with one? Inquiring minds want to know. GOF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahab Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Honestly, I'd rather have a shooter stop in the open and clear a malf than try and keep moving. People get fat fingers really fast when their gun pukes, and it becomes really easy to break the 180 or flag yourself when clearing a malf and moving if you're not intimately familiar with the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickB Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 But,I've never... in five years as a SO, several Nationals, a few Regionals, and a large handful of State sanctioned Championship matches... ever seen a "malf response" written into a COF We generally write it in any/every time there's shooting while moving to cover. We've been doing it for so long that it's possible that we've forgotten to write in on more than a few occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I've never seen "how to deal with a malf" instructions written into a COF. I suppose it is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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